Tactical Command
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The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=30347		 Page 3 of 11
Author:  Beefcake4000 [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
Can't wait to see this all finished up and get the army forge updated too, Matt's done great work here.
Author:  Fudd [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
I took the Army to Cancon this year, had plenty of fun with 3W via VC, 1D on VC with a loss on VP and 2 very strong losses to Squats. I was rolled over and spanked both times - they're a damn tough match up for DKOK with all that solid BP, MW BP and other long range shooting.
Hopefully the AC got plenty of data to hit the list with the nerf bat.
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
Rug wrote:
No reason it's being held, I've just been derelict in my duties, I'll do my bit tonight, I'd imagine it'll move quickly from then on.


Great, thanks.
I'll collate some info to send you to help speed the process along. I don't expect much difficulty, the feedback has been quite positive (from both players AND opponents :o ).

Thanks.
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
Update: The Hades Breaching Drill has been added to the reference sheet.
Author:  Largo_W [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
The swap in CC and FF was intentional? (See my posting a bit further up)
Author:  mordoten [ Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
Is it only me that see the potential Overpowered synergy between having slow, rock hard units (inf co in gorgons) thats hard to kill on one hand and than also fast moving singelton warhounds AND a tunneler unit that can threaten the enemyz backfield in the same list??!

This is comparable to me sticking back Landas and/or Drop Rocks in the Gargant list which would make for a crazy good list where I could threathen the midfield with toug as nails Gargants and then planetfall drop rocks and/or landas to secure objectives deep into the opponents half.

What is the weakness of this list?
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
Largo_W wrote:
The swap in CC and FF was intentional? (See my posting a bit further up)


Yes, the Engineers were changed from CC4 FF5 to CC5 FF4 on purpose. That seems a far more representative statline for guardsmen armed with mole launchers.

mordoten wrote:
Is it only me that see the potential Overpowered synergy between having slow, rock hard units (inf co in gorgons) thats hard to kill on one hand and than also fast moving singelton warhounds AND a tunneler unit that can threaten the enemyz backfield in the same list??!

This is comparable to me sticking back Landas and/or Drop Rocks in the Gargant list which would make for a crazy good list where I could threathen the midfield with toug as nails Gargants and then planetfall drop rocks and/or landas to secure objectives deep into the opponents half.

What is the weakness of this list?


It's a Guard army, so has the usual weaknesses like 2+ act SR 2 etc, with the least ranged shooting of any guard army (no manticores and usually 2 heavy stubbers and 2 mortar upgrades in the first 1300pts spent on core formations, no core russes, etc).
The list is heavily tilted towards assault, which is why so much of the effort in redoing the list was focused on the Gorgons and infantry formations. These formations are much more appropriately priced now, which means players are much more likely to field 1 or 2 instead of 3.

Regarding the Engineers with tunneller, as good as it may sound in theory in practice it's far less appealing - to the extent that I can't actually recall anyone ever taking the formation. Unlike Squats for example who can spend 175 on Core to get the same effect, Krieg pay 250 from Support for this 'non-activation' which pops up on turn 3.

Feedback from players and their opponents has been positive, and the list has gained a reputation for being better balanced even among some of its former detractors. If your experience is otherwise you're more than welcome to post it, or if you've not played with or against them you're more than welcome to try them out and post your results.
Author:  Largo_W [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
Well if you take Chris Richards Krieg list which won Euros 2014, you could play the exact same list today and only leave out a Shadowsword or some other small stuff. And the list he played was probably the best you could do with Krieg, triple gorgon, dsilo etc.

There are still no real weaknessess in this list as the Gorgon is still far to cheap. Plus you dont necessairly need the Warhounds as you can take multiple Rider Formations - with Riders better than regular Rough riders, because "Reasons".
My vote is still on " Make them weaker!" and would happily provide Reports if the Gorgons get more expensive (around 150 per Tank should be fair) and singleton WH get ditched completely.
/rant
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
Largo_W wrote:
Well if you take Chris Richards Krieg list which won Euros 2014, you could play the exact same list today and only leave out a Shadowsword or some other small stuff. And the list he played was probably the best you could do with Krieg, triple gorgon, dsilo etc.


Thanks for your input. Not having enough points for that 'Shadowsword and other small stuff' if a player wants to run triple gorgons was pretty much the intention. Points changes to core formations have a big impact on list building, and the last two tournaments I went to that has DKOK players saw them finish pretty much in the middle of the pack.

BTW the DSilo is a dramatically different proposition now; the difference between the old Damage Capacity 3 4+ reinforced and the new DC2 without reinforced armour is huge. The name is the same but it's not the super blitz guard you may have encountered in the past.
Author:  Largo_W [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
But they got cheaper. Hardly a nerf
Author:  Dave [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
Added the 2015 playtest changes to the TP.
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
Largo_W wrote:
But they got cheaper. Hardly a nerf


25 points cheaper, and now breaks after just 2 blast markers and requires only 33% of the amount of hits to kill (previously required an average of 12 hits, now requires an average of just 4 hits).

I doubt there's a Krieg player on the planet who wouldn't prefer it was changed back, so it's probably safe to say it's a nerf 8)
Author:  Graf_Spee [ Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
It is a brutal nerf and changes the whole tactical approach of this list, by cancelling out a complete option of play. You need to spend on another firmation to blitzguard depleting one valuable support slot. Its a tough change but I think a necessary one.
Author:  mordoten [ Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
I agree, the missile silo is nerfed as much as it needs to be.
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