Lets keep this thread about the Krieg directly and not get too side tracked on confused AA discussions.

I definitely would like to see the AA formation changed in some way as well.
The ablative shields of the Trojans, garrisoned on overwatch in cover is too good.

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The Barran can dothe exact same thing though - 3 light vehicle 60cm AA guns plus 3 AV vehicles to move them. They only cost 100 too.

The AA formation has disadvantage compared to Hydras in that the AA platforms are LV. They're also slower and can get stuck if transport Trojans die.

IMO the Krieg AA formation is a bit too good at the moment, but not by that much. Simplest and best option would just be to increase their cost by 25.

Yes probably a reasonable idea.

Does it have to be Removed? Perhaps making it one shot instead? Another suggestion would be to lower the save.

No, Please keep it but put a note disalowing garrison instead.

Yes, good.

Isn't a D6 a bit harsh? D3 or D3+1 seems more reasonable to me.

Yes, good.

A 6+ CC is probably something good. It gives the formation a weakness in Assault.

I'm going to ask again: Any merit to the idea of allowing Grenadiers to be upgrades to an infantry company thus gaining the Gorgon abilities and removing it from the Grenadier formation itself?

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I quite like the idea, but then I don't really know anything about Krieg fluff. In fact I think it'd be nice if most lists' upgrades were done like this. I'd prefer to be able to swap regular infantry for fire support in steel legion companies for example.

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I pulled that idea from the fluff.

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Yes, and ogryns and demolishers too...

I wouldn't but OTOH I also wouldn't take a Gorgon with them either. Trying to find a middle ground between those that wan't them gone and those that want to load gorgons up with them for fluff/collection reasons. If they were part of an infantry company you could do some of both and also spread out and do interesting things like area denial and they do have a good ability to dig infantry out of cover.

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No. Grenadiers are an elite formation with a different role on the battlefield. Storm Troopers aren't an upgrade to IG companies so the Krieg equivalent shouldn't be either.

The problem being brought up is specifically scouting Gorgons not Grenadiers in Gorgons generally (which the Epic-UK list allows too). There's a range of options but being as it's a long standing approved list the smaller change to address the problem - add text to their notes barring Gorgons from Garrisoning - should be the way to go.

Removing Gorgons from the Grenadiers is even simpler than giving them exceptions to the rules and solves the problem neatly.

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I have to agree with Onyx. Fluffwise, I thought the Armoured Centaurs were reserved for them anyway. Why not use them for it?

/Fredmans

They more commonly are on foot or use Centaurs, but they definitely do use Gorgons (they did at times in the Vraks Campaign). It probably depends on the circumstances of the mission and what they are tasked to do. Considering Space Marines infantry have 6 different transport options Grenadiers having 2 isn't unreasonable.

Scouting, RA 4+, DC 3 Warengines is a no go in my opinion. Remove them and get on with it.
Also: Crit = WE dead seems fine, they should not be "perfect" and other DC3 WE also crit-dead (Harridan, Baneblade, Shadowsword, Banesword, Stormblade, Battlefortress, Gunfortress, the Eldar Superheavies, ...). A crit should be a "reward" for beeing lucky.
Removing Warhounds, remove the Silo or give it DC 2 and lower the save (so its a fluffy alternative to the moving Deathstrikes).

Most players will propably have the Bolters on their Gorgons, so perhaps leave them as an option but remove the bonus on FF. OR have them at +25 points each.

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