After dozens of attempts on different computers I have finally been able to download the current list, woot woot! While the list has taken some positive steps since 1.13 I do feel it has made a few poor choices and lost it's way some.


Light Support Batteries for 250pts?? If they cost this I don't think I'd ever take these units in competitive play, they're not worth it and there are better alternative options. It would also feel backwards and wrong that the Light Support Battery were more expensive than the most expensive Heavy Support Battery. I think cheaper units of 3 rather than 4 would be much better - I would make these cost perhaps 125pts for either including mandatory Centeaurs or Gun Emplacements and be 0-1 per company to limit popcorning (you would still be able to field as many in an army as you could in 1.13 but you would pay a premium for them being a separate activation).

I'm think the artillery company is a very bad and abusable idea - you could take an army solely composed of entrenched artillery and anti-aircraft platforms that hid and/or garrisoned and blasted the enemy apart with silly amounts of barrages. Would that be fun to play against or fair on the opponent? 2 x 9 entrenched garrisoned overwatching basilisk plaforms would be a nightmare too! Yes vanilla guard can potentially take an all artillery army too, but it'd be a poor list while Krieg artillery have different artillery options which can be better or cheaper. Backgroundwise Krieg use lots of artillery but as to I think having them as support formations and not companies is a very good idea - forcing a Krieg list to take infantry or death riders to get supporting artillery is no bad thing in my book and it's the way the Barran siege regiments army list goes about it.

If you upgrade with an extra Infantry Platoon should their Gorgon only cost 50pts when a Grenadiers one costs 75pts?

Can a superheavy tank take advantage of the cover of a gun emplacement? (bought for another unit that has given it up for it)

Are Fire Support batteries with their really worth 75 points? 8 x 30cm AP5+ shots for a very slow, non transportable unit, which is unlikely to move and which can be easily suppressed doesn't sound so great. You already get a single Heavy Stubber shot in the commander so it'd not that you're adding shooting to a unit that has none. 20 units is large enough that an extra 4 doesn't add that much extra benefit and they may have 4+ FF rather than 5+ FF but it's not that big a boost either. I wonder whether 50pts might be a better cost for these.

Medusa's in this list really are The best artillery in the game aren't they. For 250pts you get a 3BP disrupt, ignore cover, indirect fire barrage that has a 'backup' 30cm MW4+ that can be deployed with it's own 5+ cover save and can garrison. I'm going to be taking a lot of these in my games methinks!

Aesthetic point: the sub-title of The Mossinian Campaign is a nice addition but personally I think it looks worse for being italic - I'd try normal or bold and would also make it the same nicer font as the other text such as "Epic Campaign".

Yeah I put it on a different server. No idea how long it'll stay there as the server I used was supposed to shut down five weeks ago, it could shut down any day now.



225 points? 200?


I know I don't like that at all either.


I like this, though I'd be sorry to see the 4's go down to 3 it will be easier to balance.

Thoughts guys?



A fair point.


'Cos the resulting formation is hideously expensive and unweildy (struggles to bring its firepower to bear), whilst the Grenediers formation can make better use of their lone Gorgon. So it's worth a bit more to the Grenediers.


Gun Emplacements do not affect War Engines, so no.

A Leman Russ could take shelter there though, which wouldn't affect its armour save but would give the enemy -1 to shoot at it.



Possibly not, but FF4+ is really great. 50pts could be considered...


+25pts for the formation?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I'm not sure this is a fair assessment - Krieg have a preference for Heavy Stubbers, but they do use a variety of different kinds as normal guard do - FW do make an impressive total of 15 different Krieg heavy weapon models, of which only 3 are Heavy Stubbers and 6 are perfectly capable of taking on AT targets. Purely having Heavy Stubbers has always felt not right and badly represented to me about your list.

I have an idea on this: leave the command units exactly as they are but amend the Fire Support Battery to have 1 x Heavy Stubber shot and 1 x Autocannon shot (to be an average of all the other weapon types). This would also make them worth the 75pts IMO.

Very interesting idea.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

They seem good, but they are priceyish at the moment and I'm unsure whether a 25pt increase is warranted or not.

They have been at that points for some time presumably and people have been fine with it so I reckon maybe leave them as they are for the moment. I plan on testing out using lots of them (I used just one formation last game) and will see how they feel and report back.

They have been consistently remarked upon as being very good.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Your call, I would still take them at 275pts with emplacements, though not as much and multiple individual Stormswords (with Commisars in to make them fearless and remove all blast markers when they rally) at 200pts each start to look like possibly better options.

Well you don't have the range to do the same trick as the barans with those BP weapons. Still, no comment on the two lists above? plenty of range, AT, activations and attacking options.



Actually I would move the arty and rough riders to either a supporting formation, or a second type of company that didn't grant support slots.



I would guess so, though I would want to see massive gun emplacements made!

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Apologies! WIll go read army list now!
R>

_________________
MoK's Painting Blog
Now Showing:
Mok's Modular Modern Messy Guard Army

Well the point of comparison is I guess an infantry formation with firepower, not a arty formation. Especially if it has an AP value.



I think 3 or 4 only comes in if they have a BP value. Is there any way for the mortar to lose it?

I think a good anti spam price point to aim for is 150 points + cover/centaurs. How may gun units and how many crew units is that (I love the extra crew incidentally and wouldn't worry about losses, I'm sure if they loss a bunch of men the rest have an incentive to load faster! ), note you don't have to have equal numbers of guns and crew. Even the options don't have to be the same, maybe for instance the mortar requires less crew than the quad?


I thought WE were treated as AV's for cover purposes?


Why not instead have the command stand get an autocannon shot, but all the infantry weapons be heavy stubbers? (Admitably like the baran list, which might then encourage the above idea to be different!)

I'm still all for the grenadiers getting the odd heavy stubber, to match real world tactics and FW models. Alternatively such a chap could go into the command stand rather than a twin which is crew served.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Typo-hunting produced the following. I looked over the separate reference document, only.

- Death Korps Infantry. Lasgun firepower says "Assault weapon". Should be "Small arms".

- Leman Russ Demolisher. Demolisher cannon has "Slow Firing." Is this correct? I thought it is supposed to be "Ignore Cover".

- Ditto for LR Thunderer.

- Stormsword weapons. Twin Heavy Bolter and Twin Heavy Flamer do not have range marked. Instead, it says AP4+ in the range column. Bolter is 30 cm, but what is Heavy Flamer range? (guess: 30cm, same as Hellhound, but it could be 15cm, same as Grenadiers)

- Shadowsword weapons. The E:A rulebook Shadowsword has 2 x Heavy Bolters (AP5+; page 98). The DK reference page Shadowsword has 2 x Twin Heavy Bolters, also with AP5+. I think it should say "Heavy Bolters" instead of "Twin Heavy Bolters".

Thanks for the catches Asura.

Heavy Flamers' range is 15cm.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Heavy Stubbers are the archetypal Krieg weapon so it is appropriate for the Commanders to have them and there and to leave the autocannon shots for the larger Fire Support Batteries. The basic infantry company should standardly only have a 30cm range with their solitary shot IMO – it’s limiting and makes the choice between Fire Support or not more interesting. Also means Gorgon Krieg can only have 30cm range, while foot ones can have some further.

Grenadiers could perhaps have Heavy Stubbers but Heavy Flamers are more appropriate and interesting weapons for them and make them different from the other troops in the army. I think as is is best for these.

The effects chart for Gun Emplacement specifically lists AV's as gaining a 5+ cover save, and as having 'no effect' on War Engines.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Ok so things I'm looking at for V1.16:


- Artillery Company moves to a Support slot.
- Artillery Company gains the option of nine Trojans or nine Gun Emplacements, for 100pts.
- Light Support Battery goes to 3 units of Quad Guns or Heavy Mortars, plus three Gun Emplacements, for 125pts. May swap the Emplacements for Centaurs for free.
- Light Support Battery limited to 0-1 per Core Company.
- Fire Support unit has one Twin Heavy Stubber shot, and one Autocannon shot
- Hellhounds upgrade goes down to 125pts

I've been thinking about making Gun Emplacements mandatory for all artillery typ units, and allowing them all a free swap for Centaurs/Trojans... thoughts?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter