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Epic : Siege

 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:14 pm 
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Quote: (mnb @ Sep. 30 2009, 15:45 )

strictly from a common sense point of view, why would you have trenches and bunkers in an army where the men inside them can't shoot? doesn't that seem odd? who in there right mind would waste the points on them when anyone can sit outside assault range and shoot them up?

99% of siege warfare is hiding in a trench not shooting, acting as a defence line for the artillery batteries. :)

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Quote: (asaura @ Sep. 30 2009, 14:53 )

BL, we really do not want to use 4 BP-firing mortars in infantry companies as upgrades.

You do realise that an Epic mortar base is three 40k guard mortars? :)

4bp is a sod to point as its twice the firepower of 3bp, but only 1/3 more units. So one kill or bm does disproportionate damage.

So in essence the proposal is

To make assault infantry have no heavy weapons (not even in the command stand?)

To make garrison infantry have less heavy weapons for more points.

At least they still fit in the trenchworks (capacity 24 - 12 in bunkers, 12 in trenches), but any upgrades like thudd guns won't. So less protected firepower.

One change - to fit with the 'no minus points' desire make the tanks 280 for 6 thunderers and +20 for regular russ etc?

Edit - if I can delay until Christmas I can give you 1st edition rough riders and 2nd edition planes for the mossino's :)

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:27 pm 
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One change - to fit with the 'no minus points' desire make the tanks 280 for 6 thunderers and +20 for regular russ etc?

Already did that actually, forgot to note that I had.

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Good to see these changes :agree:

Bit of an adjustment for people but the Death Korps now correctly match their background and W40k list (which is very specific that Krieg, unlike any other guard regiment, do not have heavy weapons in their squads, which can slow down and seperate an advance too much). This also makes Krieg infantry more distinct and different from Barran siege troops. Since the costs of the basic unit has now gone down then you can also field more numbers in any army - helping get across that endless horde feel  :smile:

Can you do something about the file though please? I'm repeatedly unable to view or download it.


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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:13 pm 
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Since we are being all changy changy how about slapping in the tempest for the white scars and removing their aircraft to represent their solo mission? Then, was it zombo?, will have to CAD it and get one made in record time :)

Hell, go wild, remove the Titan support as well, use the EpicUK costings and drop tacticals by 25 points! I'd reckon it has a 90% chance of being balanced with the right tempest stats and points and would be a bit different!

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:42 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ Sep. 30 2009, 20:13 )

Since we are being all changy changy how about slapping in the tempest for the white scars and removing their aircraft to represent their solo mission? Then, was it zombo?, will have to CAD it and get one made in record time :)

Not my call, Hena is Champion of the White Scars list.

Quote: 

Hell, go wild, remove the Titan support as well, use the EpicUK costings and drop tacticals by 25 points! I'd reckon it has a 90% chance of being balanced with the right tempest stats and points and would be a bit different!

Previously the White Scars list actually *was* the EpicUK list, but now there is an Approved ERC White Scars list it has taken its place (as Siege is an ERC-affiliated project).


I would *love* to see the White Scars list get the Land Speeder Tempest (seeing as they're supposed to have invented it, and are noted as having lots in their armoury), but again, Hena is the White Scars Champion.

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:45 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 30 2009, 22:42 )

I would *love* to see the White Scars list get the Land Speeder Tempest (seeing as they're supposed to have invented it, and are noted as having lots in their armoury), but again, Hena is the White Scars Champion.

So email him about it already!  *laugH*

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:46 pm 
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So email him about it already!

Already did yesterday.  :D




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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 30 2009, 22:46 )

Already did yesterday.  :D

He's probably at sauna...  :whistle:

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:02 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 30 2009, 22:42 )

Not my call, Hena is Champion of the White Scars list.

Well, technically this would be a campaign specific army list, separate to the standard one. Something Epic was supposed to be all about? :)

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:02 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ Sep. 30 2009, 22:46 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 30 2009, 22:46 )

Already did yesterday.  :D

He's probably at sauna...  :whistle:

He is very funny about Sauna's you know (he likes it the 'sauna' the better).

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:12 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ Sep. 30 2009, 23:02 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 30 2009, 22:42 )

Not my call, Hena is Champion of the White Scars list.

Well, technically this would be a campaign specific army list, separate to the standard one. Something Epic was supposed to be all about? :)

I don't see a need to have two different White Scars lists, when the only change would be the addition of one extra unit.

As this is an ERC-affiliated project it will use the ERC Approved White Scars list, and it is the ERC-appointed Champion's call if he wants to make any changes.

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:26 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 30 2009, 23:12 )

I don't see a need to have two different White Scars lists, when the only change would be the addition of one extra unit.

Surely dropping allies, cost of tacticals, adding a unit would be different enough for a list that's from a specific campaign?

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:36 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ Sep. 30 2009, 23:26 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 30 2009, 23:12 )

I don't see a need to have two different White Scars lists, when the only change would be the addition of one extra unit.

Surely dropping allies, cost of tacticals, adding a unit would be different enough for a list that's from a specific campaign?

As I said, I don't see the need to have two different ERC White Scars lists, especially if one is categorically better than the other.

Furthermore, I am not the ERC White Scars army Champion, so effectively I'd just be appointing myself as sub-Champion unilaterally (and I won't do that).

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 Post subject: Epic : Siege
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:38 am 
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BL, we really do not want to use 4 BP-firing mortars in infantry companies as upgrades. However, we could perhaps use 4 Heavy Mortars as a support detachment. What about Basilisks as well? LatD uses 4 Basilisk formations, albeit in a very limited army list framework. I realize it's a difficult issue, but how could we try it? It'd be very different from the SL IG, I guess. Consequences would include at least
- Significant points cost raises,
- Lower activation counts,
- Poor fits to people's model inventories and sales packages.


The DKoK does't use Basilisks. They use Earthshaker Platforms. The only self-propelled Artilelry they have arethe Bombards and even they are slow.

As for Field Artillery (Quad-Launchers and Heavy Mortars) they should be their own formations as Battery of 4 units and as a Company with 12 units.

The Infantry really is only there as speedbumbs to hold off the enemy from the artillery and other important part of the battlefield (in trenches they are very hard to shift with their 3+ save even in assaults) and for assaults to remove enemy positions.

Doctrine for the DK is shell the enemy positions with long range artillery (Earthsaker and Medusa Platforms and Bombards). Then send Infantry (perhabs in Gorgons) as 1st wave to find out where enemy positions still remain strong. Then send the 2nd wave with Infantry in Gorgons accompanied by Grenadiers in Centaurs to exploid gabs in the enemy lines and some tanks for a harder punch and Field Artillery towed by Centaurs to act as short range fire support.

Fire Support Squads are only for static defences if the Death Korps own lines are being attacked. They have no place in an assault. They would rather follow up AFTER the assault to take position in the conquered enemy positions to wait for the enemys countercharge.

So it is good and fits the fluff, that there is no free space in Gorgons to transport Fire Support units because Fire Support units have nothing to do during an assault.
Just as in WW1. No one carried their machine guns forward during an assault. They are only for defence.

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