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[Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan

 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:46 am 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ 12 Dec. 2008, 00:41 )

Hmmm...damn. So there goes the Leviathan as something special. Now it is as common as any other super-heavy tank... :D

Physical rarity alone still makes them pretty special...

And the idea of a Heavy Mechanized Infantry armylist sounds awesome!  (DIBS!)

The Supreme Commander upgrade looks promising but what will you do if you already have an Regimental HQ with a Supreme Commander unit? Write some restictions to prevent this? Or should it be allowed?


I think it would just be a matter of writing the army list to allow/disallow such things, similar to the way the Tau do it.

And it's the Capitol Imperialis that's "super special"!

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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:04 am 
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I really didn't have much more to say then that the Levi and CI are different AFVS ... so should have different stats ...  And I just wanted an excuse to post pics of mine ...  :vD




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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:24 am 
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Nice minis as always L4. I too have two CP's and a clutch of Leviathans but I've hardly done anything with any of them yet. Ork captured stuff is always a laugh, nice idea.

Leviathans have always been mentioned as Regimental Commands in SM2 but without any real rules until NetEpic when they gave it the rules it deserved as a Regimental commander. You always could take more than one in an army and if one was destroyed another would replace it in the chain of command after one turn of disrupted communications. (No Orders!)

The SM Capitol Imperialis did not have the Command ability but it had more shields (6) and was pretty useless as a transport in battle but not bad for securing/denying an area if used properly. It could transport any two full companies that where allowed to fire from within the CP (any one entire company could fire out of any one side of the CP). In SM the CP always had a Behemoth Cannon as a main weapon that could provide four templates of decent artillery fire but only up to 50cm range. In NetEpic it was allowed to be replaced with a Volcano Cannon from the Titan list.

Ever since the Gaunts Ghosts and the Double Eagle book/s I have been wanting a CP that was allowed as a mobile airstrip/launch pad for thunderbolts etc. This would be sweet in fluff but in game... Meh!

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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:19 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 11 Dec. 2008, 23:57 )

I'm still dubious as to the usefulness of movement 15 transports.

I thought this for a long time until I saw someone really use one well.  Believe it or not, they can be extremely useful.  It's probably better to think of it in terms of "adding infantry to the WE formation" rather than "WE as oversized transport".

Having 2-300 points of infantry that can spill out if you don't pin the WE makes assaulting it really darn hard.

Initiating an assault with 12-20 units with FF5+ is pretty wicked even before you consider that the WE can take the first hits on 4+RA, possibly on shields as well, and provide cover saves if any enemy fire gets past that.

When it comes time to grab objectives in a GT scenario, you can dismount during any move, allowing the large mounted infantry formation(s) to block off large sections of terrain that the WE couldn't hope to control alone.


Even from the "WE as transport" perspective it has a couple advantages:

It's as fast as the infantry on foot so it doesn't slow them down.  It provides 4+RA and possibly shields while they close, plus WEs can move through/use a lot of terrain that AVs cannot for more durability.  Losing a couple activations of fodder infantry isn't much of a price to pay for delivering them all the way across the board without taking fire.

Having a "safe" retreat near the front lines for a broken formation is sometime useful.


All that combines to make a mounted transport WE a strong multi-purpose threat as compared to an empty version, even with 15cm move.

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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:09 pm 
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True, but a shadowsword or two can then take out the entire formation...

Short of the leviathon/CI marching, then the formation engaging out of it, I see little use.


Or Deathstrikes...  But you know, I agree that it is still better overall.  Moving your troops inside or outside a transport is a real concern in our modern warfare.  Some battle conditions find transports susceptible to certain types of damage and commanders have to decide if their guys are riding or hoofin' it for the day.

In this case it is no different.  It becomes yet another tactical decision based on the enemy's armament, and I think that is good for the game.  "Hmm, any Shadowswords out there?  Nope?  Okay, my guys are starting in the War Engine." :cool:

EDIT I thought of another good use for it: as a hiding place for broken formations.  They escape into the CI, remain safe from enemy fire and all its blast markers, and then re-emerge when they rally.




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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:14 am 
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Quote: (Warhead @ 12 Dec. 2008, 08:24 )

Nice minis as always L4. I too have two CP's and a clutch of Leviathans but I've hardly done anything with any of them yet. Ork captured stuff is always a laugh, nice idea.

Leviathans have always been mentioned as Regimental Commands in SM2 but without any real rules until NetEpic when they gave it the rules it deserved as a Regimental commander. You always could take more than one in an army and if one was destroyed another would replace it in the chain of command after one turn of disrupted communications. (No Orders!)

The SM Capitol Imperialis did not have the Command ability but it had more shields (6) and was pretty useless as a transport in battle but not bad for securing/denying an area if used properly. It could transport any two full companies that where allowed to fire from within the CP (any one entire company could fire out of any one side of the CP). In SM the CP always had a Behemoth Cannon as a main weapon that could provide four templates of decent artillery fire but only up to 50cm range. In NetEpic it was allowed to be replaced with a Volcano Cannon from the Titan list.

Ever since the Gaunts Ghosts and the Double Eagle book/s I have been wanting a CP that was allowed as a mobile airstrip/launch pad for thunderbolts etc. This would be sweet in fluff but in game... Meh!

Thanks W/H, the Looted CI was fun to build.  Now Mosy makes a good point. And I've discussed this before. Based on both my RW and gaming experiences, if you dismount from your transport too soon, you lose mobility and a modicum of protection. You dismount too late, you present a 2 for 1 Target.  And again, based on my gaming experiences, things like CIs,  SHT, etc. are Big Targets and get killed off first. So with Levi & CI, which don't move very fast, make sure if you do use them for transport, you dismount before it's too late ...  Their real strength IMO is their firepower and they can take more damage then other AFVs. And the burning hulk(s) blocks LOS ... :oh: :vD




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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:40 am 
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I think an upgrade would make the most sense for these units.

MAYBE even make it so that each COULD take the upgrade, but you have to decide which is 1st/2nd/3rd in command if they happen to pop. (or if you happen to have that many giant rolling beasties.)


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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:34 am 
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Not sure how this topic is progressing but how about giving both units an ability similar to the command Land raider variant in the scion's list.

I believe it allows you to ignore the "15cm" restriction when calling a combined engage as per the commander ability.

Representing the superior comms equipment on board.


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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:33 pm 
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sorry to sway the topic a lil, but instead of posting to clog up the boards i would ask here. are there any working rules for the CI? i know its prolly one of those left field units that no one runs, but i picked up a really nice one from otterman and would ike to include it into my minervan/ad mech army at opp's permission.

thanks


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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:09 pm 
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The old AM/TL list had CI rules ... that's what I consider using ...

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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:50 am 
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could you by chance link me to that? all i have is the current war gryphone list.

thanks


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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:46 am 
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I'll see if I can find the list ...

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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:44 pm 
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thanks L4


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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:42 pm 
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Searched the Tac Cmd archives ... no luck ... but I PM'd E&C ... He should know ...  :agree:

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 Post subject: [Units] Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:17 pm 
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sounds good. i tried to contact him about a knight army list, but his inbox is full.

ill keep a look out


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