Vultures? |
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Dave
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Post subject: Vultures?  Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:03 pm |
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Location: Worcester, MA
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Hellfire's have an effective range up to 5mi/8km. I believe the Hunter Killer was designed with them in mind, hence why it has an unlimited range in 40k. I don't think 75cm or even 90cm would be too much in a game of EA.
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Ginger
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Post subject: Vultures? Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:14 pm |
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Location: London, UK
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Distances in Epic are deceptive - and variable. This is to allow Artillery models to be displayed etc. IIRC a standard 6' x 4' table represents something like 30 miles x 15-20 miles. That said, 5cms represents around 50-100 yds, 30 cms about 1 mile, and 60 cms around 5 miles give or take a bit.
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Cosmic Serpent
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Post subject: Vultures? Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:09 am |
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Location: Chicago
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OK - just for some real life comparison (I know this doesn't hold water with some people, but it gives some points to form a basis of thought), and the scale of the board doesn't need to be considered so much.
If you assume an Earthshaker on a Basilisk is similiar to a modern day 155mm howitzer it would have a realistic maximum range of ~22km. As was stated above, the Hellfire missile is the weapon of choice for Apache/Cobra helicopters when hunting armor, and has a maximum range of 8km or approximately 1/3 that of artillery piece.
Using this ratio - you could very much argue for a range of 45 cm for the Vulture. I'm not necessarily saying that is what I personally would do - as I believe somewhere around 75 cm would be appropriate.
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dptdexys
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Post subject: Vultures? Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:30 pm |
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Location: South Yorkshire
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If you assume an Earthshaker on a Basilisk is similiar to a modern day 155mm howitzer it would have a realistic maximum range of ~22km. ?As was stated above, the Hellfire missile is the weapon of choice for Apache/Cobra helicopters when hunting armor, and has a maximum range of 8km or approximately 1/3 that of artillery piece. ?
Don't forget that the basilisk can use indirect fire giving it a range of 240 cm and 1/3 of this is 80cm.But when using the new skimmer rules and tournament amount of terrain there doesn't seem to be a problem facing the vultures.
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Cosmic Serpent
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Post subject: Vultures? Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:34 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:56 am
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Location: Chicago
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Yes, you're right - forgot about that point.
Using the same logic - and applying the indirect fire range, 90 seems like a very appropriate range.
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Soren
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Post subject: Vultures? Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:47 am |
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Seems like to be a Hunter Killer Missile rack to do some equalizing to inferior 40k and 40k items.
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Cosmic Serpent
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Post subject: Vultures? Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:26 am |
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Since I've never been a helicopter pilot, I can't say for sure what ranges they are realistically used at (although my old boss was a Cobra pilot in the Army - too bad I don't work for him any longer).
I do know from talking with him they can be used in many ways - but hellfires are actually laser guided (not beam riding but similiar to radar homing missiles). They are fired into the general area, and when they get close they actually lock onto the reflected laser. A very popular tactic with pilots is to actually fire them up over say a sand dune, hide behind the dune for a certain time period then pop up and illuminate the target - at which point the missile homes in on the laser.
My old boss also flew Kiowa scout helicopters as well, and they have the capability of hiding behind hills/obstructions with their sensor mount (which sits on top of the rotor) looking over the hill and using it to illuminate targets while a gunship actually fires the rocket from somewhere else - again, usually out of sight. The US military (and others) are very high tech these days - and they've figured out all kinds of cool ways to kill people without exposing our troops to much return fire.
I know the current Javelin (soldier portable anti-tank weapon) is fire and forget, and that has a range of 2.5km (again, not sure of typical engagement range). All in all, it's a very debateable question - but the bigger question may be - do ranges in Epic mean truly effective range, or absolute maximum range?
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Markconz
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Post subject: Vultures? Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:39 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
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Location: New Zealand
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Lets check it out. Do you want to start another poll Hena and I'll close this one once you have set it up.
Maybe something like?
1. No change.
2. Range reduction (60 cm)
3. Range reduction (90cm) and AT reduction (3+)
Agreed 2 or 3 should probably go in change documents, I'd support either.
Option 2 could be 45cm but it feels too dramatic a change to me. I think the 60cm has a better chance of flying with people.
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Ginger
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Post subject: Vultures? Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:09 pm |
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
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Location: London, UK
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Could you add the option for 45 cms to test people's views rather than making the assumption, even though that is apparently very short, and also allow for fire reduction at shorter ranges. So,
1) No change
2) Range reduction (90 cms) and AT reduction (AT3+)
3) Range reduction (60 cms)
4) Range reduction (60 cms) and AT reduction (AT3+)
5) Range reduction (45 cms)
6) Range reduction (45 cms) and AT reduction (AT3+)
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Vultures? Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:43 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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For reference, from the old, old SG boards:
Originally posted by Jervis:
Although 30cm = @1KM, I've also assumed a sliding scale. This isn't nailed down hard and fast (Epic is a game not a simulation), but it works something like this:
15cm = @250m
30cm = @1KM
45cm = @2KM
60cm = @3KM
75cm = @4KM
90cm = @5KM
150cm = @10KM
300cm = @30KM
Interestingly, this means that the closer you get to the enemy, the slower you move, as the ground scale increases but the speed with which you cross it does not. Which happens to be quite realistic in an abstract sort of way, as formations do move much more slowly the closer they get to the enemy. Of course it also means that terrain features can grow and shrink in size, but lets not talk about that
Best regards,
Jervis Johnson
Head Fanatic
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Neal
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