Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 222 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next

Elysian List Issues

 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:06 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
The 40k rules for Tarantulas aren't that bad as Honda might suggest. The rules arethat what you would expect from an automated gun with limited intelligence.

Tarantulas have either a 90° arc of fire and a long range or a 360° arc of fire and a short range. AP-Tarantulas will only target infantry and AT-Tarantulas will only target vehicles.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:47 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
From which, the implication is that you might get to choose what type of Tarantula unit you add to the formation on a unit-by-unit basis (like Predators). However I suspect that even so, a lack of mobility (10cm move??) will make them unwieldy to an attacking force, so only usefull as a point defence for garrison forces. Moreover, these seem rather similar to Tau Drones, and while I still have a strong hankering after those elusive but iconic units, perhaps their history should be a warning to the use of Tarantulas here? :)

Stepping back a little, I am still not sure we have fully articulated the "problems" with the current list have we?
  1. Mosc has suggested the Elysians suffer against lists that gain air-superiority.
  2. I have suggested the LV transports are more of a liability than an asset, in small numbers they are a target while in large numbers they reduce activation counts
  3. We all recognise that the list's minimal armour values encourages both high activations to reduce the impact of attrition and terrain hugging to almost fanatical extents.
  4. An implied concern many that the list does not behave as intended, while not being entirely clear/agreed just how it should actually work: how to make the list work in practice, and how close that reality is to the portrayal in the "Fluff".
  5. Etc

Perhaps if we could better articulate the problem and the constrtaints, then we might find more appropriate solutions - so for example, what is the recent debate about ground-based AA actually trying to address? Is it purely to reduce the impact of opposing air-superiotity or some wider reaching concern? And given Honda's constraint, how should this be addressed (if at all)?

Finally, what are the lists intended strengths (as opposed to their mechanics)? Again, it does not seem to be entirely clear what the Elysians should do well.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
I revisited the AA unit in order to try to avoid a special rule of auto-CAP. Given Honda is not keen on AA units, the solution is to institute the auto-CAP that was suggested by multiple people and agreed upon by Honda.

The high activation is already addressed in the latest list.

As for the people who who have issued complaints about the list's playing style, most haven't even played with them. I think trying to rework the list based on a few theoryhammers is counter-productive.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:10 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 63
Have people worked on play-testing the list as it currently stands? What sort of feedback do those people have? Is the lack of AA really losing Elysians games?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:47 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
getupandgo wrote:
Have people worked on play-testing the list as it currently stands? What sort of feedback do those people have? Is the lack of AA really losing Elysians games?


IMO it is losing 'some' games when your opponent brings more aircraft formations than you, thus the move to reduce the interceptor formation from 4 to 2. Not sure about the experience of others. How about you?

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:04 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 9539
Location: Worcester, MA
In games where CAPing CAP is allowed a 4 strong interceptor doesn't have much going for it, and certainly doesn't scream "air superiority". It's certainly more robust but that comes coupled with not having it around for a turn (something that could take out a 2 aircraft formation would reduce a 4 unit formation to half strength and give it 3 BMs, having it come in on a 5+ at least) as well as having all your eggs in one basket (leaving you to intercept/CAP only one enemy formation while the others get free reign due to the lack of your on table AA).

I think it's a change worth considering, but you also have to worry about activation creep.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:11 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
Who are you calling a creep!?! :P

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:21 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 9539
Location: Worcester, MA
The Greatest of all Epic players, The Terminator of Tyranids, The Crusher of Chaos, The Eviscerator of Eldar, The Subjugator of Space Marines, The Invincible Vs. Imperial Guard, The Overlord over Orks, Vanquisher of all, Receiver of Stunning Victories over all (especially Dave), the Dread Archon, the Man who removes the 6-pip side from his dice just to make it fair, the Maha-Moscovian.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:36 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
Dave wrote:
The Greatest of all Epic players, The Terminator of Tyranids, The Crusher of Chaos, The Eviscerator of Eldar, The Subjugator of Space Marines, The Invincible Vs. Imperial Guard, The Overlord over Orks, Vanquisher of all, Receiver of Stunning Victories over all (especially Dave), the Dread Archon, the Man who removes the 6-pip side from his dice just to make it fair, the Maha-Moscovian.


In that case, you can add creep to that title if you want. ;D

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:15 am
Posts: 1832
Location: Oslo, Norway
Won't CAP-on-CAP or not make a pretty big difference to the power of air fms? (In favor of ground attackers) Seems hard to test the list properly if the rule is played either way.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:54 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:04 pm
Posts: 6005
Location: UK
Dave wrote:
the Man who removes the 6-pip side from his dice just to make it fair,

But, this would also make it impossible for him to roll a 1, since there would be no 6-side to land face down to show the obverse 1-side?

_________________
AFK with real life, still checking PMs


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
Yes, however it is just one piece to the puzzle. The big killer for Elysians are multiple fighter formations. If your opponent has more than one, you are at a major disadvantage since your only heavy support comes in the form of bombers. Multiple fighter formations PLUS CAP-on-CAP and you are pretty much hosed.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:15 am
Posts: 1832
Location: Oslo, Norway
He's using a five-sided dice.

You've seen one of those, right? I thought everybody knew of those these days.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elysian List Issues
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:01 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:04 pm
Posts: 6005
Location: UK
Ulrik wrote:
He's using a five-sided dice.

You've seen one of those, right? I thought everybody knew of those these days.

Prefer rolling spheres myself, that way you can legitimately shout balls when it all goes wrong.
/derailing

_________________
AFK with real life, still checking PMs


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 222 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net