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Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
Reaver
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:33 pm 
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One other thing; there's no fire support units. A quick look on the FW site shows lots of Lascannon, Heavy bolter etc squads. Is there a reason for leaving Fire support out of the list?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:24 pm 
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Aye, and for the Grenediers I went with their signiture Heavy Flamer as their ranged weapon.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:26 pm 
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(Reaver @ Jun. 12 2007,12:33)
QUOTE
One other thing; there's no fire support units. A quick look on the FW site shows lots of Lascannon, Heavy bolter etc squads. Is there a reason for leaving Fire support out of the list?

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Reaver

I was thinking about their lack of presence this morning, and was mulling over the idea of adding them.

If they were added, most likely the Krieg Infantry squads would lose their Twin Heavy Stubbers however (I regard their current '1 in 2' as an abstraction that represents a mix of infantry squads and support bases).

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Reaver
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:32 pm 
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Bear in mind that the Steel Legion list allows you to add Fire support units as an upgrade to Infantry formations.
I think the Krieg infantry need to keep the Stubbers, it's pretty much a Guard signature to have a heavy weapon supporting every 10 men. That, and I've already started converting mine!
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:50 pm 
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Nice! :)

What do you think of the Macharius rules?




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Dave
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:01 pm 
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Are the cannons actually Battle Cannons?  They look a little bit too short for that?  Siege Cannons maybe or something else?

I also don't think there's a need for a command variant, none of the other super heavies have them.  But that's just me.  And I don't have the Forge World fluff on them to tell me otherwise.

Otherwise I think it's good.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:04 pm 
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Are the cannons actually Battle Cannons?


Yep, bear in mind the vehicle is almost the size of a Baneblade.

I also don't think there's a need for a command variant, none of the other super heavies have them.  But that's just me.  And I don't have the Forge World fluff on them to tell me otherwise.

Aye that is true, but normally Super-Heavy tanks don't get the option of changing their main turret guns.

When they do get the option of changing their turret gun, they pick up a new name, Stormblade, Stormsword, etc.

With the Macharius, it's specifically allowed a choice, of Vanquisher cannons or Battle cannons, so I thought it might be interesting to include that.

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Dave
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:36 pm 
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Then I default to the Forge World fluff in that case.  However, given the rarity of Vanquisher cannons should it be made an upgrade?  One that is possibly limited in number?

Also, are the cannons twin-linked in the rules?  That would make for some nasty AT if they were switched from 2x to twin... :devil:

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:52 pm 
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(Dave @ Jun. 12 2007,14:36)
QUOTE
Then I default to the Forge World fluff in that case.  However, given the rarity of Vanquisher cannons should it be made an upgrade?  One that is possibly limited in number?

In order to make it rare, only one Macharius in every three is allowed the Vanquisher Cannons (That being the 'Command' Macharius in each formation).




Also, are the cannons twin-linked in the rules?  That would make for some nasty AT if they were switched from 2x to twin... :devil:


They're not twin-linked, they're specifically 2x cannons in the 40k rules, which leads to an interesting unit in Epic too.

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Reaver
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:24 pm 
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I must admit, I thought they would be twin-linked at first. I'm extremely pleased that they count as separate according to FW - it gives the formation a respectable fire output, much better!
It also makes the Vanquisher version suitably different - otherwise the stats would be too close to each other.
Oh, and I'll hopefully be doing a couple of Vanquisher barrels to fit the Macharius tonight...
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Dave
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:14 pm 
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Had to check, barrels laid right next to each other don't always mean twin-linked anymore I guess.

A couple more things:

1)
Steel Legion has an Artillery Battery for 250 Basilisks or Manticores.  Death Korps has the platforms, 175/200 respectively minus the movement and minus the heavy bolter.

With Trojans (+50) and platforms I can take a casualty and still be able to fire 3 artillery weapons.  Artillery batteries can't do this however, one casualty equals 2 artillery weapons.  Should this account for a price difference between the two lists or is this a negligible game effect?

If some difference in points should exist then I would suggest that all the platforms not be able to fire in a turn in which they moved.  Like the AA gun.  In fact I think this should probably be the case irregardless of all this.

2)
Siegemasters get 3 Thuddguns for 75 points, they are 100 in the Death Korps list.

3)
A Flak battery costs 150.  The Hydra platforms are the same cost but can't move and don't have a heavy bolter.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:11 am 
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Should this account for a price difference between the two lists or is this a negligible game effect?


It's negligable, because the platform artillery has LV status, which means they can be picked out from their Trojan escorts by using AP weapons, and it means the enemy will normally have better to-hit values than with AT weapons.


If some difference in points should exist then I would suggest that all the platforms not be able to fire in a turn in which they moved.

I originally had that exact rule in the list. I dropped it because it essentially made moving the artillery not worthwhile, ever.

I've still a feeling that Trojans are too expensive even at 50pts.

Siegemasters get 3 Thuddguns for 75 points, they are 100 in the Death Korps list.

I followed TRC's recomendations for the points cost of the Thudd guns (He's the army champion).

For the Siegemasters, Thudd guns are overpoweringly cheap at 75 points. They're still a good buy at 100pts IMHO.


A Flak battery costs 150.  The Hydra platforms are the same cost but can't move and don't have a heavy bolter.

They also can't move, have a worse armour save and are LV's.

Definitely worth looking at.

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Heavens To Betsy
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:02 pm 
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Few comments.

The datafax for 'Death Korps' Commissars does not need to be here since there are no differences between them and Imperial Guard Commissars.

The same goes for 'Death Korps' Hellhounds, 'Death Korps' Leman Russes, 'Death Korps' Leman Russ Vanquishers, 'Death Korps' Leman Russ Demolishers and Shadowswords.

I would change the name of the Death Korps Rough Riders unit to Death Riders unit. The note about obtaining the Scouts unit ability should be a function of the army list (like the Trappaz formation) - no need for it on the datafax.

Are you still really against giving them a 5+ Armour save?

It's a bit awkward having such a minor difference in weapons for the Centaur based on which formation it's bought for. Pintle-mounted weapons aren't normally taken into account. I would just count it as being armed with one heavy stubber regardless of formation.

The caveat that the Heavy Anti Aircraft Platform cannot fire on any turn that it moved / transported should be on its own datafax, not that of the Trojan.

The Earthshaker Platform's datafax should be revised as currently it allows you to use AP or AT fire with the Indirect rules; shouldn't it just have the same weapon stat as the Basilisk's earthshaker?

Why are the Hydra Platform's autocannon limited to 30cm when the Hydra itself has a 45cm range?

The old Weak Rear Armour rule is still on the Gorgon's datafax.

The Macharius's and Macharius Command's Heavy Stubber should be Twin Heavy Stubber (AP5+ already correct) and be Fixed Forward, while the sponsons should be Left and Right as appropriate.

I'd try to mark out the Command Tank a bit more. I quite like the idea of it. Perhaps change the sponson weapons.

On the Grenadiers, you have Heavy Flamers listed twice. I would put the ranged attack line first, then AND Small Arms attack.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:37 pm 
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(Heavens To Betsy @ Jun. 13 2007,16:02)
QUOTE
Few comments.

The datafax for 'Death Korps' Commissars does not need to be here since there are no differences between them and Imperial Guard Commissars.

The same goes for 'Death Korps' Hellhounds, 'Death Korps' Leman Russes, 'Death Korps' Leman Russ Vanquishers, 'Death Korps' Leman Russ Demolishers and Shadowswords.

I intend this army list to be able to stand alone as a single document, rather than have the player have to flip back and forth between different docs.

Plus, I like writing.



I would change the name of the Death Korps Rough Riders unit to Death Riders unit. The note about obtaining the Scouts unit ability should be a function of the army list (like the Trappaz formation) - no need for it on the datafax.


This could be tidied up, I agree.

Are you still really against giving them a 5+ Armour save?

Kinda.

They never survive a game currently, any time the enemy looks at them they all die. 5+ AS may be the answer.

It's a bit awkward having such a minor difference in weapons for the Centaur based on which formation it's bought for. Pintle-mounted weapons aren't normally taken into account. I would just count it as being armed with one heavy stubber regardless of formation.

I've yet to start testing these, but I will bear it in mind.

The caveat that the Heavy Anti Aircraft Platform cannot fire on any turn that it moved / transported should be on its own datafax, not that of the Trojan.

It should actually have been removed entirely. My mistake.


The Earthshaker Platform's datafax should be revised as currently it allows you to use AP or AT fire with the Indirect rules; shouldn't it just have the same weapon stat as the Basilisk's earthshaker?


It has the same rules as a standard Earthshaker.

Remember that the Indirect special rule only allows BP weapons to use indirect fire, the Thudd gun needs a specific note to allow its AP/AT attacks to use indirect fire.

Why are the Hydra Platform's autocannon limited to 30cm when the Hydra itself has a 45cm range?

It's because I'm silly.

The old Weak Rear Armour rule is still on the Gorgon's datafax.

Ooops.

The Macharius's and Macharius Command's Heavy Stubber should be Twin Heavy Stubber (AP5+ already correct) and be Fixed Forward, while the sponsons should be Left and Right as appropriate.

I've fixed the names, but sponson weapons on Super-Heavy tanks don't have fixed weapon arcs (I'd prefer it if they did, but it's not my call!), so I've left them out of the Macharius Heavy Tanks as well.

I'd try to mark out the Command Tank a bit more. I quite like the idea of it. Perhaps change the sponson weapons.

I've considered that (Have a male rather than a female tank perhaps, if you know your WWI tanks), but I'm not sure it's needed right now (For one thing, it means you need a different hull model, and Reaver's is sooo nice lol).

On the Grenadiers, you have Heavy Flamers listed twice. I would put the ranged attack line first, then AND Small Arms attack.

Cheers, I'll do that.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg 1.9
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:00 pm 
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What do you reckon of this for a companion armylist?

Vraksian Traitors




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