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Commissars poll and review
No change 12%  12%  [ 5 ]
Fixed by points, 1/X pts (specify X below) 81%  81%  [ 35 ]
Random by points, 1dD/X pts (specify D and X below) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Fixed by activations, 1/X act (specify X below) 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Random by activations, 1dD/X act (specify D and X below) 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 43

Commissars poll and review
Dave
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:08 pm 
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Thought I'd give this a little bump so that the weekend browsers will catch it.  What are people's thoughts on this being the new special rule:

6.4.1 Commissars
A Steel Legion Imperial Guard army may include 1 Commissar character for every 500 points of formations, rounding up.  The Commissars do not cost any points. If this number exceeds the number of Commissar units that a player has available then any excess is lost.

Consult the player's army list to see how many Commissar characters a player may add to their army at the start of the battle before either side sets up.  If the army includes a Supreme Commander than the first Commissar must be attached to the Supreme Commander's formation.  Any further Commissars may be attached to any other formations with the exception of Imperial Navy Aircraft, Titan Legion BattleGroups, Orbital Support formations and any allied forces formation.  You may not include more than one Commissar per formation.  If you have more Commissars than formations any excess is lost.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:32 pm 
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Sounds good to me.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:40 pm 
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I really like the wording and the new rules, Great Stuff!

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Chroma
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:58 pm 
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(Dave @ May 11 2007,18:08)
QUOTE
6.4.1 Commissars
A Steel Legion Imperial Guard army may include 1 Commissar character for every 500 points of formations, rounding up. ?The Commissars do not cost any points. If this number exceeds the number of Commissar units that a player has available then any excess is lost.

I'd still like to see it at 1/450 to make the number of Commissars different at the two standard Tournament games sizes of 2700 and 3000 points.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:17 pm 
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If we are wanting to have differing numbers of commissars at 2700/3000 why not try :-

1 commissar + 1 per full 500 points,this would give 6 at 2700 and 7 at 3000 and not much difference at other point values.
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Dave
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 1:39 am 
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(Chroma @ May 12 2007,17:58)
QUOTE

(Dave @ May 11 2007,18:08)
QUOTE
6.4.1 Commissars
A Steel Legion Imperial Guard army may include 1 Commissar character for every 500 points of formations, rounding up.  The Commissars do not cost any points. If this number exceeds the number of Commissar units that a player has available then any excess is lost.

I'd still like to see it at 1/450 to make the number of Commissars different at the two standard Tournament games sizes of 2700 and 3000 points.

That was my original idea, use 450 to play more to the 1800 and 2700 point armylists.  But after hearing what people had to say I think the 1/500 would be simpler.

One less commissar is fine in my book too, I don't think they should be overly plentiful.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 2:43 am 
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The tournament rules are for 2000-5000k games. Arbitrarily choosing 2700 points as  somehow special is almost as ridiculous a design choice as rolling 2D6 for commissars. 2700 was chosen by some people only because it is the minimum points value in which you could still use a battle class titan - which is ludicrous because at that points value you would have to be barking mad to include one usually. Bah. 2500 (the original choice) or better 3K should be the standard (and even that is still only barely adequate to qualify as an 'epic' game).

1 per 500 and done, which it looks like the vast majority support.  If you want to play piddly little games that aren't even multiples of 500 points and actually worry about differentiating between 2503 and 2702 points or whatever, then I say just use your own house rules for it. Don't annoy the majority who want something that is intuitive, elegant and easy to use at any points value.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:28 am 
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I'm surprised the majority can't use 450 and round up :)

As to the 2700/3000 thing it revolves around the common tournament number. It is actually quite different - 2700 doesn't allow the padding formations commonly encountered and makes for far tougher list selection - specialisation is a much riskier affair. Indeed its my favourite points value for a 'pick up/gt game' as a result.

Certainly fun wise wading in at 4000+ is the way to go, but thats not the main consideration with these lists - gt games are.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:48 am 
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(The_Real_Chris @ May 13 2007,02:28)
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I'm surprised the majority can't use 450 and round up :)

As to the 2700/3000 thing it revolves around the common tournament number. It is actually quite different - 2700 doesn't allow the padding formations commonly encountered and makes for far tougher list selection - specialisation is a much riskier affair. Indeed its my favourite points value for a 'pick up/gt game' as a result.

Certainly fun wise wading in at 4000+ is the way to go, but thats not the main consideration with these lists - gt games are.

Right so 2.5 or 3K like I said, and 1 Commissar per 500 points.

Gosh if you think 2700 encourages such tough and awesome list selection compared to 3000, imagine how much you will love 2500 points!  :glare:  :;):
VERY subjective splitting of hairs Chris. It really isn't important enough to justify using an awkward number like 450, especially given the ridiculous reason behind why you are using 2700 points in the first place.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:24 pm 
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It really does make a difference - I suspect due to the way we gravitate to round numbers it is easier to create a list at 3000 than 2700. Try it a few times. Certainly here tourny players far prefer 3000 because 2700 has implications for things like support but more importantly typically represents the 'fluff' - sentinels, griffons, ogryns etc for guard say. 1-2 activations and company padding.

This comes back to the game - you need a minimum number of formations to fight, take damage and hold ground. Thats a constant and why we don't expect to fight below 2000 points.

Theres also a certain gameness aspect - stuff like chaos is less affects than say marines (they can still get 3 ferals but marines can't get 4 warhounds) and this comes down to the whole numbers and 900/1000 for support typically.

Incidentally if I go to brit con at 4000 I reckon i will take the full allowance of fighter bombers for laughs :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:08 pm 
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I rewordet the Commissar SpecialRule to include the one per 500 points rule and to better fit with the given fluff and rules in Codex: Imperial Guard. I use these rules for my "True Steel Legion" and to some degree (becaus eit includes priests and psykers)"General ImperialGuard" armylists, too.

Special Rule: Commissars
Imperial Guard officers are often accompanied by Commissars. An Imperial Guard army may include one Commissar character for each 500 points of the army?s points value. Commissars do not cost any points. If the army?s size exceeds the number of Commissar units the player has available then any excess is lost.
Look up how many Commissar units a player may add to their army. If the army includes a Supreme Commander then the first Commissar must be attached to the Supreme Commander?s unit. Any further Commissars may be attached to any other Commander unit or command unit (eg the leading tank of the Tank Company). You may not attach more than one Commissar to the same unit. Only Companies can have Commissars. If you have more Commissars than Companies any excess is lost

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Dave
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 3:59 am 
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(BlackLegion @ May 19 2007,16:08)
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Only Companies can have Commissars. If you have more Commissars than Companies any excess is lost

While this is something I agree with I don't think pushing for a rule like this would be a good idea.

For one, I'm sure more than a couple of people would be upset over not having Commissars in their Rough Rider and Storm Trooper platoons.  And two, I'm sure they would be upset if they actually modelled a Commissar onto these formations already.

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Flogus
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:47 am 
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1 per 500pts

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Hojyn
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:15 pm 
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(Flogus @ May 20 2007,11:47)
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1 per 500pts

What Flogus said.

We've been playing with this house rule for quite some time now, and it works just fine.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Commissars poll and review
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:44 pm 
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@Dave: Well, Commissars are usually attached as advisors to officers. Only if there are more Commissars as company level commanders they attach semselve to platoon level commanders and so on.

I think it is very unlikely to have more Commissars than Companies in the army, so i left this out.

But ifs bothery you then replace "Only Companies can have Commissars. If you have more Commissars than Companies any excess is lost "
with:
If all eligilble commanding units have Commissars, then you can attach Commissars to other Imperial Guard formations. No more than one Commissar canbe attached to agiven formation. If you have more Commissars than eligible formations any excess is lost.

But well, Sentinels and Rough Rider can't have Commissars according toi Codex: ImperialGuard. But Commissar Tanks are mentioned (and depicted) in ImperialArmour.

If the army has the Independent Commissar doctrine then the Commissar can be attached everywhere he wants. Even Rough Rider, etc.




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