I have played Kreig a lot and it's good to see the list up for review. It's probably my favourite list so I hope things arenot changed too radically, but some areas to need addressing.
Quote:
Remove lone Warhounds*
Yep, very good idea for balance sake. Warhounds allow the activation count to be bumped up (not using limited support slots) and are a very good unit. At least now a 500 point pair formation will be a signifigant investment.
Something should definitely be done about the Gorgons, they're proving annoying and challening for opponents and are being overused in the lists. Gorgons are actually only ever used occasionally by the Death Korps in certain circumstances, their general battle tactics don't use them but revolve around huge numbers of infantry in trenches with loads of artillery, supported by tanks, Death Riders, ect. It would be nice if the epic Krieg list could be as effective whether Gorgons were taken or not, but at the moment I strongly suspect that's not the case.
Please bump the cost of two Gorgons to 175. 125 is really WAY too cheap for 6 DC of Reinforced Armour. Epic-UK have it at 150 and they're still being very powerful and disliked there. Adding +D6 kills to the critical would be good also. A Gorgon has extremely thick armour all round, while being open above the crew compartment with no roof. In the Vraks books there were occasions when a lucky artillery shell landed inside the packed Gorgon, pretty much wiping out the infantry inside.
captPiett wrote:
This list seems to get a free pass when it comes to the "kitchen sink" label. What guard stuff of consequence *can't* it take?
The list is based on the units used by the Krieg in the Vraks Campaign. So long as the units and list are balanced why does it matter that there's a lot of choice? If you want a more limited version of choices you could always play the Epic-UK Death Korps list instead rather than forcing those that want the wide selection of units to give them up.
The list is approved and in a supplement and many people have built armies and collections around it. It's appropriate to make some small changes to balance it better, but would be unreasonable to remove units.
Quote:
Remove Deathstrike Silos
Don't do that! Many people have converted really cool ones. A nuclear missile bunker fits well with the Krieg theme (their home planet had a nuclear war and they fought a grim war of attrition for centuries in the afrermath).
I would be happy to see their cost go up though, I always argued they were undercosted. You get a lot better for only 50 points more than Deathstrikes. Costing them at 300-350 seems fair to me.
Quote:
Remove Gorgons from Grenadiers
Don't do that! They were known to use them in the Vraks Campaign. I've also bought enough
Gorgon models for my 3 companies, plus one extra for my Grenadiers.
Scouting Gorgons does seem rather wonky and potentially abusable though. Just add text to the Gorgon's notes stating 'may never garrison'. Problem solved.
Quote:
Do Kreig infantry need to be cc 5+? it means you're buggered whichever way you want to take out a huge blob of them.
Not really. 6+ would be better for them. They are better than regular guardsmen in CC in 40k, but not by that much. They're roughly equivalent to Guardians say and if Guardians still have 6+ CC then so should the Krieg. It gives the enemy more of a way to tackle them which would be good.
I have a few others that no one has brought up yet:
Heavy Marauder Bombers are too cheap. I spammed them in a recent game, taking 6 x formtaions of a single bomber at 3k and having a high activation count overall (will write up a battle report in time just haven't got round to it yet). I like the existence on the unit in the list but found them powerful and would say they should probably be 175 points.
The AA formation is also excellent and too cheap at the moment. It's overal better than a Hydra formation but costs less at 125. You get a choice of Hydras and Heavy AA guns (IMO a mix is optimal) and most crucially have 3 Trojans there so you have a 6 strong formation – harder to kill or supress. 125 points counteracts activation difficulties from the expensive core too much and Epic-UK priced their (worse) formation at 150 which I would suggest we adopt too.
Conversely the Fire Support upgrade is rather poor and in need of a boost. Statwise it's perfectly what it should be, with 1 x autocannon shot and 1 x twin heavy stubber shot, meaning half it's shots are only 30cm AP5+. It's also added to the core infantry formation which only has a single model (the command stand) with a ranged attack. As a result it's a lot easier to suppress them and reduce their firepower than it is with fire support in other IG lists. They also can't be transported in Gorgons so if you want them your large formation is going to be walking and probably mainly defending a building or some trenches. Overall the formation is large, but easily avoided and with paltry shooting for it's high points costs. Them being underpowered for these reasons was something acknowledged and discussed by Ben after Siege was done though he hadn't addressed it. I would like to see the ugrade drop to +50 from +75. Trenchlines are the way Krieg fight the considerable majority of their battles and doing something to help them be more viable would be good.
Hellhounds and Machariuses could do with a points drop, I've never considered taking them at their current costs. Can we adopt the Epic-UK costs of 100 each please?
Overall I do like the d6 units rule I just figured it's best to explore more "standard" options first. Immobilised plus a point of damage, for example. Not as cool but simpler.
)
