That's fair. I don't know that I'd want to use a 600+ pt formation for a single MW template, but could be good as a Blitz guard I guess. I've personally found the Doomsday to be useful for the range (it'd still be so at 90), but not overpoweringly effective. No more so than the Stormsword Cannon, again excepting the range.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

It also seems to be the case that 120cm 3BP, MW, Fixed Forward is the stat for all Imperial Leviathans (E:A supplemental, BL Steel Legion list, and this one) as well as the combined Squat Lists. How neccessary do you feel the change is, given it will break a well established trend, E&C?

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I think tactical complexity and balance is more important than adhering to the stats in a group of lists that seem mostly untested.

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By all means go ahead with those stats, then. I'll have a think on the change, though I'm not terribly wedded to the 120cm range myself.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

If the change to 90cm proves to be a good decision theni have no problem reducing the range on the SteelLegopn PDF's Leviathan too.

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Just to note that I played my first game with this list yesterday.

The list did feel very "infantry swarmy" which was the kind of feel I was hoping for. The 90cm range Doomsday Cannon version of the Leviathan was certainly not underpowered, as my Reg HQ/Leviathan formation repeatedly destroyed anything that came near it.

I'd hesitate to make many more judgements at this time as I was playing against a highly experimental list (Knightworld).

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Felt right as far as I'm concerned when I faced it. Perhaps the critical on the Leviathan should be destruction though. Immobilised, though REALLY useful at the time, felt a bit too little for a DC4 WE.

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Got in another game today versus a Steel Legion army list.

Thoughts and comments:

The Leviathan seems ok. Powerful but heinously expensive. If I'd have gone second on turn 1 I would likely have immediately lost it to a Deathstrike salvo.
I used it with 90cm on its main gun.

I did not use the Kasrkin +1 to rally rule when it came up because we decided that it just felt wrong for Imperial Guard to be rallying so easily. It just felt a bit unfair.

Armoured Sentinels are probably not worth 100pts. The loss of Scout is really huge and it's not compensated for by the extra armour & range on the gun. Perhaps drop to 75pts.

2nd game in a row that the Marauder Heavy died to a critical hit, argh. :-p

Conscripts felt about right to me, gameplay-wise, as did the Sabres I attached to them.

The game went to me, after a turn 4 draw (I had BTS, he had nothing). I'd claimed 1350pts and he'd claimed 1050pts.

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I'm facing a similar problem conceptual problem to AoC with my own leviathan. Perhaps the solution would be to have the option to replace the supreme commanders entire formation with a leviathan, and give the leviathan itself supreme commander. That way it can act as a transport to a second formation if desired, without tangling things up with the warengine transport rules. If you had a massive command suite full of support staff and a badass cannon, you wouldnt want to leave it to hang out with chumps unless you absolutely had to, right?

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That just means you'll never see the Leviathan taken, IMO.

I like that it's a hard choice to take. It's 100pts more expensive than the Steel Legion SC, sure, but it's also a lot better.


Not as cool, IMO.

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The Steel Legion PDF list uses a similar solution

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The SC Leviathan in that list ends up costing only 400pts, probably making it a bit of a default choice?
I regard the fact that it's really expensive as a good thing, it means you're making a serious investment when you choose to bring a SC to the table.

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TBH, I just keep forgetting it. It's probably unneccessary in terms of differentiating the list, agreed? It seems there's no balance reason to keep it either.





E&C - That would require splitting them out into Armored and Scout formations.
Both - At that point the standard Scout formation and 8 at 150/175 for the Armored would be more attractive than the 6 man formation AoC suggests, just in terms of keeping more to a multiple of the standard formation size.

Can someone try to get a game in with a Teleporting army and no Scout Sentinels? If we're splitting off the Armored anyway, it's worth looking into cutting the Scout more closely (E&C's wanted to do this from the start). My worry is that against an army with Teleporters, there's no good way to screen against their attacks. I've got no one to test that against for the time being.

Keep on playing!

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I'll try and face off against an army with teleport soonish.

If a formation size of 8 I'd recommend 150pts. Those non-Scout Sentinels aren't very good.

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