Ok, this is bordering on trolling, Zommbocom.  Can you let a LITTLE brainstorming take place before you start disecting people's ideas?  Or do intend to completely irritate me?

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Err, no?

I'm merely pointing out what the model armed with two twin main cannons. That's not trolling in any way. The main weapon name needs to be twin, even if it uses Flogus' stats. I have no problem with his stats, but the main weapon needs to be "2 x twin whatever"

Chill out.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

It's not armed with four lascannons either but I don't hear you blabbering on about that.  I just wanted this thread to be something of a constructive brainstorming and you've whizzed in my beer.

I promise I'll give you plenty of time to gripe about things later but for now I'd appreciate you taking a break from the thread so somebody can post an idea other that differs from your own without you pointing out some deficiency in it (as I explained AT THE TOP).

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Had anyone else said my perfectly reasonable comments you'd have said nothing, but you have some inexplicable issue with me that causes you to overreact to everything I say, and I'm getting sick of it.

The model is armed with two twin cannons, and a bunch of random other weapons that could be anything. The other weapons are entirely at the discresion of whoever writes the stats, as are the stats of the main cannons. All that is set in stone about the stormhammer is that it's armed with 2 twin cannons of some sort, whatever their stats.

Flogus' stats are fine, but the main weapon needs to be named as a twin weapon in order to match the model. I'm sure Flogus agrees.

BTW, Flogus posted before me that he thought walker was too much, thus "shouting down" someone else's idea, yet miraculously you entirely ignore that, then have a go at me for the same thing? You yourself shot down Jonlukes ideas, again before I said anything.

Please don't have a go at me for things you are doing yourself, and if you have any issues with me, stick to PMs.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Really not in favour of 10cm speed on a short range SHT.

Jonluke's ideas seem workable and allow for limiting these tanks to managable numbers.

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How does the twin-linked work again?, It's still 4 die isn't it? personally I would drop it slightly to AT/AP4 or even 5 though I don't think it needs to go that far, even a high stat (3) but slow firing might work.
15 seems fast for such a heavy looking beast but I'd like it to be so as it's so close ranged.
Why the defensive bolters? surely the FF can take care of those? Flogus's headline stats seem the way to go for me, Arm4, CC6, FF4.
I would drop the Las' too, when I first looked I wondered if it had 4 Las AND 4 bolters which seems crazy.

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I like Flogus's proposal best,to me it's the nearest to how I remember the background/fluff for it (no idea if it has been updated recently).

I would change flogus's slightly to,


The main weapon needs to be "twin" otherwise we will eventually get someone asking for 4 attacks/WYSIWYG etc.

The weapons should be short ranged to
a) match background/fluff (as I remember it was designed for urban warfare)
b) I feel it should off set the need to reduce it's speed to 10cm

PM'd.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Just thought it'd be interesting to have the original stats from the Stormhammer in Space Marine and Titan Legions:

Move.  Save.  CAF.  Guns.  Range.  Attack Dice.  Save Mod.
10cm    1+    +10  Cannon  50cm     4    4+         -2
                          Bolters 15cm     14   6+         0

Note: It has a -1 armour mod for being shot in the back.

No mention of the Lascannon that have subsequently found their way onto the stats.

Having played using the Stormhammer as a 10cm move for the majority of recent games I've found it makes little difference to how the tank is effective, in a company it doesn't really slow you at all due to the 15cm coherency. My opinion is that 10 or 15 movement will not effect the tank so much as to make it less effective in a game.

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About the 'twin' thing :
Many coaxial same weapons are indeed 'twin'. But In the 28mm 40k world, the Vanquisher Macharius has a big turret armed with two coaxial Vanquisher cannons which are NOT twinned.
I wanted to use the same idea to give my Stormhammer more attacks (but not mandatory more firepower).

About the 'Flogusus Mk1 pattern Stormhammer', I compared it to the Baneblade :
4 heavy bolters (SH) vs 3 twin heavy bolters (BB) => about the same
4 snub battlecannons vs 1 demolisher (shorter range, but slicely increase AP power and Ignore Covers, so IMO about same as 1 snub battlecannon), 2 lascannons (a bit better than 1 snub battlecannon) and 1 megabattlecannon (only 1 attack, but longer range and 'to-hit' stats, so about same as 1.5 ou 2 snub battlecannons)

Until there, SH and BB are about at equality.
The SH has Thick Rear Armour and Defensive Boltgun Array, the BB has the autocannon. So the SH is superior to the BB.
Still, IMO, the SH must keep Thick Rear Armour and better FF. It will be difficult to reduce the side turrets firepower. This left only two options : reduce speed to 10cm (beeurk !) or reduce the global firepower of main turrets by making 4 individual snub battlecannons AP5+/AT4+ (AP4+/AT5+ would have more sense, but I want to preserve some AT firepower), or by re-twinning the cannons (2 main turrets : AP3+/AT3+).

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My problem is that the weapons stats don't match the mini. It seems to me it should have 4 attacks for the main weapons, because there are 4 barrels, and 4 attacks for the secondary weapons, because there are 4 turrets. I'm favor of the secondary weapons being heavy bolters, given the stats from older editions. I do like the idea of extra attacks for FF. I would keep the speed as 15cm so that it could keep up with other SHTs.

Weapons                      Ã‚ Range   Firepower

4 x Snub Battlecannons     30cm    AP3+/AT3+
4 x Heavy Bolters        Ã‚     30cm    AP5+

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Twin Conquerer cannons (AP and AT 4)

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