Given the number of actual games played with the Minervans GLOBALLY has probably not even hit 30 (sadly that includes both the previous and current ACs), I'm inclined to leave the list as is.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I stand corrected on the number of games, but I still remain cautious with the lack of playtesting batreps posted.  And I'm still not changing it till May 09.  

As for this being "MY version" of the list, I wish I could call it that.  I consider myself the adoptive parent of a neglected child who really hasn't had time yet to devote myself to it.  However, it's not like I up-gunned everything in complete opposition to reason and responsibility.  I tweaked up the speed on ONE unit which arguably has taken it from being an unattractive choice to imbalanced.

Scarik, the list isn't supposed to be the all flexible body of units that the Steel Legion is.  You can get a lot of variation into your list by bringing different types of tank variants which can lower your points used.  By your own admission you weren't interested in using the variant Russes so it doesn't surprise me you are finding the list rigid.  You could try running some lower cost core formations and see what that does to free things up.  It will also provide for a different style of game.  I'll post the last list I played and you can see what I mean.

EDIT: Scarik, I missed one of your posts where you hint at the fact that you have actually used the variants.

Thunderers are junk they are too slow, its never worth it to take them over Demolishers.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

My game count with minervans are sure more than fifteen, and to be honest I never used any SHT beyond SS and BB. But I would not field Stormhammers anyway (silent gentlemen agreement), ´cause they look really too good, but I cannot say anything out of a game   But let me summarize some of my thoughts:

Beside that you pay 340 for 6 Conqueror tank platoon, which is really a little bit over the top if I look on their armament. But OK, I cannot take them anyway, too expensive and I lack support slots (point 2 of this post), as written in another thread. A fluffy idea could be allowing 3 for 150 of them as an upgrade to the poor mechanized platoon (which is really nice to fill some gaps). Their speed would really be a good match and it fits to armor companies to protect their footsloggers with some fast (and else really underrating) tanks. (They are really screwed against anything more armored than a Sentinel   )....just a thought.....

The second and just more sad thing is, that if you want to have a decent activation cout you have to spam SHT companies and a swarm of cheap fighters. With Leman Russ companies you are unable to get anything near competitive (from activation count view). (Show me the Minervan list that has ruled a tournament, even with stormhammers they are average at best. Guess why). This is the only fearure I really hate in this list. I do not see the point harmstringing a list with such a sucking rule like only allowing 2 support formations while keeping the core formation overly expensive . Every other list build on the support slot system has at least some cheaper core formations..... It forces me to take titans or punches of aircraft, which is for sure not the intention.


The third thing is, I will not pay 115 pts for a downgraded SS, in most cases useless (AT) tank destroyer if I can get a more powerful SS just for a few points more. LR Companies only really shine when shooting on mixed or LV formations, else you waste insane amounts of firepower. If you engage a WE, you will be better off with a Destroyer, sure, but Minervans have far better tools for that task to a much more competitive price.

only my 0,002 cent

Soren

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Attrition is the proof of absence of Strategy

I consider myself the adoptive parent of a neglected child who really hasn't had time yet to devote myself to it.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Dude, that's harsh.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Mosc a Core unit of Thunderers is 425 points, the cheapest you can get and its not a stellar unit, 6 Demolishers for 400 is a far superior formation, this one only has size but a Mech Infantry formation does even that better.

What I meant was about the Exterminators they aren't comparable to an SHT company and they cost 525 points for 10. That 100 points can't get you much in the Minervans since there's no cheap units to buy.

Also the Minervan list doesn't let you take a bunch of tanks any more than the Steel Legion does. The Minervans have the option for a 6 Tank platoon that the Steel Legion can't have, and they have the better SHTs but if the those were balanced this wouldn't be a real advantage.

A Treadhead Steel Legion would just take Vultures to back up its tanks instead of tank platoons. And the SC formation isn't a real problem simply because mechanized infantry are excellent troops to hold objectives, its a big formation and if you put the infantry in cover they become some of the best.

I won't be doing many more games with Minervans simply because I can't vary my list enough and  my opponent's don't care to deal with a WE horde.

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Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

What do you want to do with the list, Scarik?  You are asking me to change something that I've committed to not change for a set period of time.  I don't think there has been enough varied input on the list (really its Soren, E&C, you, and I - FOUR PEOPLE doing most of the feedback) to really justify some changes.  I don't have batreps from anyone except Soren (and its been awhile since I've seen one of those too).  I have no idea what size games you are playing, what kind of opponents, what size boards, types of terrain, results of the games, problems encountered, etc.

It's basically a B!tch and Moan session that is worthless .  Now I DO think you all have some legitimate concerns but with nothing to back them up I really can't respond past what I have.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

@Mosc.  You are right. I´m a lazy bi**h when it´s coming to write down reports. Shame on me...  

New job, new city do not make it easier  

I will get some reports on...if I am able to find all this pics and scripts  

Soren

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Attrition is the proof of absence of Strategy

Well I don't think many people are actually playing the Minervans, when I offer to let my models be borrowed people prefer the Steel Legion's flexibility even when making a mostly tank list.

The 2 Support slots is very IG though so there's not much that can be done there.

Its a combination of lots of tanks that are interchangeable with some different points costs, I think what the list needs is another Core choice in the 350-400 range.

And since its unproductive to whine about it without sacrificing myself to the gods of playtest I want some forum supported ideas for new units.

I propose:

Move Tank Platoons to the Core - at 400 points with the ability to go down to 350 with Exterminators this unit is a viable way to save a few points and add some Support if it wasn't in the support section.

Create and Assault Company - 10 Hellhounds, Medusas, and/or Thunderers 400 points.
This solves the problem of Thunderers being a poor choice by allowing them to play vanguard to the very Fragile Medusas and lightly armored Hellhounds.

The fluff claims Hellhounds are 'fielded in the thousands' but they're not a very good option and they are hard to afford to put in the army. I've fielded about 3 since while I love them I just can't afford to increase the cost per activation of the list and actually compete.

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Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

The 2 Support slots is very IG though so there's not much that can be done there.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I envision the Hellhound formation as a main battle company as counterpoint to the heavy power of the Tank company.

I support version with 6 Hounds would be nice too.

I see it as a good way to get Hellhounds, medusas and Russ Thunderers actually into the army.

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Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

I'm all for a Fast Assault Company, but not with Salamanders, a Scout Company would let the Minervans garrison if it was half Salamanders.

So 6 Salamanders + 3 Griffons could add 3 Russes a Salamander command and a hydra and still garrison.

Other than that, 300 base for that company?

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Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

I really like this list but agree with E&C the Stormhammer is overpowered, it's an awesome tank that holds it's own superbly, to the point that I will regularly take this over the Baneblade and even the Stormblade.

I've played three games with 10cm movement on the Stormhammer, it's still too powerful, sacrifice the first turns firing to gain a good position and it's a solid centre point for an army. Double and shoot in the first turn (Mostly tactics with all other SHT's barring Shadowswords) and the range creates a bit of a problem but if the enemy is close there's no disadvantage.

For the record I've now completed 27 games with the Minervans myself, 8 versus E&C 13 versus Pulsar, 2 versus E&C's brother, and the others versus veterans of Bournemouth GW. - there has to be more than 30 games worldwide!


If the stormhammer gets relegated to a collectors model I'll go into hiding.

On other points, the lack of "fillers" is a little annoying when using a complete armoured force - possibly just me because I like SHT companies.
The hounds company sounds good though I've not tried it.
The fast assault company is an interesting idea, I'll play it some and report back.

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"Stars in my pocket like grains of sand."

www.spartangames.co.uk

After playing against Jonluke's rather pretty stormhammers, I too can conclude that they are overpowered for their points. You'd just never take a Baneblade when they are available.

At movement 10, they're still slightly overpowered, though less so. They could certainly do with another downgrade, say losing thick rear armour or dropping to FF4+, or simply costing 50 points more than the other superheavies.

Moscovian: Just because you don't plan to edit the list for 6ish months, that doesn't mean we shouldn't start taking note of the issues in the list and suggesting solutions.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
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