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Elysian List
scarik
 Post subject: Elysian List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Tell him to stir faster ^^

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Honda
 Post subject: Elysian List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:13 pm 
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Ok, it's been awhile and I see some discussion on the Elysians has taken place and we now seem to have a group of people who are interested in reviving/refining the list.

I think that is a good thing.

Now as to the way forward, in order to get everyone on to the same page regarding how the list got to where it is now, I'm going to need to dig up some of the formative posts so that we are all sharing the same information.

I am fully aware that the list that I created to this point is not what others may have had in mind. I did a fairly extensive amount of research early on to get opinions, see what others had in mind, looked at other people's lists before I started mine.

In each of those other efforts, the one thing that I found that no one else had attempted (some of it because of the timing of IA3) is to reproduce a list that had the same flavor as the 40K list in Imperial Armor 3 - Taros, which by the way, is a list that I play in 40K.

That is what I wanted to build, something that was true to that fluff. So that is what I attempted to do. That may not be the list you are looking for, but that is the "guiding light" I intend to adhere to through this process and I will explore more of that thinking as we go on.


From there I would like to see us progress as follows:

1. Discuss the current list in regards to where it needs to be updated per the changes that were recently released (using my timeframe, not necessarily yours) from Jervis et al. So things like the changes to the Vulture and any other IG relevant formation changes should take place.

2. Playtesting. This will be the key to any recommendations for change to the list.

Why do I say that?

Because I have seen enough lists destroyed (purposely using a harsh term) because of players opinions and feelings. I've been down that path a number of times now and I'm just not going to go there. It is a waste of everyone's time. So any recommended changes will be made because of information uncovered in play testing. Results should be duplicateable by others to confirm. If you are involved in software development in any way, this methodology should be familiar to you.

Note: If you are not willing to play test and provide documented results, then you may not want to participate in the testing side of this project.

I don't think anyone really understands this list as it stands now until you've played it somewhere between 3-5 times. There are strengths and weaknesses that only become apparent after you've created a few lists, played them, then played them again against the same person so you can see how they react to the list, before you see where the list hurts others and where others can hurt you.

Some of them are obvious (e.g. no AA units), but there are others that take time to learn. Also there are designed weaknesses. The key in a successful Elysian list (i.e. what you play in the game) is striking the right balance between offensive firepower, mobility, and resiliance. You have to carefully tailor your list in order to be able to have enough invested in the three categories or it all starts going wrong for you very quickly. And that's before you try to tailor the list to your personal playing style.

My lists have bounced back and forth between those against different opponents. What works against one opponent, won't necessarily work against another. That will come out in your testing.

I'm sure we'll discuss list behavior quite a bit going forward. But again, in conjunction with play testing.

Having said that, I do not assume that I am God's gift to game design. I see that there are a number of suggestions and opinions out already and I'm not going to dismiss those out of hand. I will take time to review that information so we can discuss.

3. Make changes and then play test again. I think we will need a minimum of two rounds of, what I would call, serious play testing. The current list has only seen around 25 games of playtesting at it's current level. I can post some of those battle reports as well if it would help. I will also post the lists I have used if that would shed some light on my thinking.

Anyway, I am looking forward to working with everyone. If my tone is coming off a little harsh, I don't mean to be. I'm just very results oriented and I dislike undertaking wasted efforts. Also Real Life ™ has given me the opportunity to remain very focused as I attempt to juggle way too many balls.  :))

Cheers,

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Elysian List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:17 pm 
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Good to see you back Honda.

As the owner of 2000pts of Elysians in 40k, I have a *lot* of opinions on this one.  :p




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Honda
 Post subject: Elysian List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:19 pm 
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As the owner of 2000pts of Elysians in 40k, I have a *lot* of opinions on this one.  


Me too! I am really looking forward to the plastic Valkyrie GW will be putting out next year.

Anyway, lots of fun ahead.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Dave
 Post subject: Elysian List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:28 pm 
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Is this the current list:

http://www.epic40k.co.uk/images/Elysians-V2-1-2.pdf

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Elysian List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:02 pm 
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I knew if I thumped on him enough he'd wake up.   :devil:

Count me in.  I have some commitments molding top secret things to get through this month but once those are done I'll start fielding the Elysians.  

My recommendation to anyone who has or is currently creating an Elysian army is to take lots of pictures of your models, keep notes on any conversions or proxies, etc.  It would be nice to compile these data eventually in a single location - just thinking ahead optimistically.

Honda,

I think posting links, game recaps, and lists would be extremely helpful.  If I could suggest that you begin your own thread so you have at least some Mod controls?  Also this thread title has been rendered inaccurate by your return.  I'll lock this thread once you open a new one and link to that discussion.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Elysian List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:09 pm 
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Oh yeah, I've sculpted a few 6mm Elysians... wish I could cast infantry in metal...  :sad:

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Elysian List
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:40 am 
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This thread has moved here as Honda has been located. ???

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