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Bombards
Yes 42%  42%  [ 10 ]
No 58%  58%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 24

Bombards

 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:24 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 27 2007,15:46)
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Plus, Bombard, identical in stats to a Manticore, costs the same, yet is much shorter ranged, and swaps Disrupt for Ignore cover (Abilities roughly equal in power?).

Obviously imbalance. :D

I voted "Yes" but I don't actually think Bombards need a better armor.

They need longer range. They used to have the same range (or better) as Basilisks in previous editions and I still don't understand why they are so short ranged in this edition.

Ignore cover is probably more powerful than Disrupt, but it's also a very specific ability and certainly not as useful in most situations. So why such a difference?


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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:34 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 27 2007,15:46)
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This isn't to pick on E&C.


You say that a lot.  :D

Maybe you're just naturally emblematic?  :;):

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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:39 am 
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(nealhunt @ Sep. 27 2007,14:28)
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(Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 27 2007,13:03)
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More votes please.

This isn't to pick on E&C.  This was just a convenient post to springboard off of.

I think there's a problem with continuing to poll and poll and re-poll and then poll some more.  Results in repeats have consistently gotten more extreme with respect to the extent of changes.  That's not a universal by any means but it definitely seems to be a strong trend.

If pressed to explain that I might offer up the idea that the people that don't want changes will lose interest and stop participating.   "No changes" is inherently a less motivating position.

Those familiar with some group dynamics psychology will note the "group think" phenomenon.  Committees actually tend to be more radical than individuals, despite the fact that it's counter-intuitive.  Ideas and possible solutions get more and more extreme as discussion continues until you end up with completely idiotic ideas.  You get a feedback loop where the perception of doubt leads to additional proposals which aren't accepted, which leads to more perception of doubt and more proposals, until you've proposed all the reasonable ideas and only really goofy stuff is left.


But regardless of the reasons for the phenomenon of shifting poll results, I'm doubtful that it is really reflective of the broader, non-Epicomms-posting Epic community.  I think we should be taking all the polls with a large grain of "poll until I get the answer I want" salt.

While I share your concern at this possibility, I'm not so convinced this is evident in reality?  

Almost all polls on recently proposed changes seem to have been fairly strongly rejected (which I am rather glad about).  I can't think of many changes that have been looked upon favourably, that haven't already been a hot topic for a rather long time.

Vultures is a notable exception in that there seems to have been a more recent swing of opinion on them (though it's worth noting that they have been an issue for longer with some groups (eg the French)).  The reasons could be speculated about, but I wouldn't quickly leap to the assumption that some sort of instinctive crowd hysteria... especially since I personally don't see good evidence for this occurring generally.

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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:49 am 
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And Bombards still need a minor boost. :D




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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:53 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 01 2007,09:49)
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And Bombards still need a minor boost. :D

Well I'm not so sure they do myself...

I've always found them fairly devastating and much hated.

Perhaps because I use orks and tyranids so much...   :alien:

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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:36 pm 
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(Markconz @ Oct. 01 2007,05:39)
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I can't think of many changes that have been looked upon favourably.

Commissars 1/500 points was pretty strong, as were reduced Rough Riders stats and LOS Deathstrikes, snipers 1/25 points was marginal as well.





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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:47 am 
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Bombards are great on their job. How many indirect artillery in game has ignore cover? It is really special ability and totally devastating especially against orks and nids which uses hordes of infantry.

So now changes, they rock already. :D

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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:23 am 
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(Dave @ Oct. 01 2007,12:36)
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(Markconz @ Oct. 01 2007,05:39)
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I can't think of many changes that have been looked upon favourably.

Commissars 1/500 points was pretty strong, as were reduced Rough Riders stats and LOS Deathstrikes, snipers 1/25 points was marginal as well.

Yes, my point was that out of a great many polls only a few produced telling results. Eg of those you list:

Commissars - just annoyed everyone with the irritating mechanic, and not really a game balance thing.

Rough Riders - just fixing a last minute change to stats made for the worst reasons (so something in the book had first strike!)  that was made to their stats just before publication.

Deathstrikes - probably still overpowered IMO, but better than they were.

Snipers - marginal that's correct, but no-one seemed to care much about it because it makes such little difference. I think it was just something thrown out there by The Real Chris that people didn't object to.

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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:08 pm 
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Maybe a better way of approaching any perceived problem with bombard is to ask "How often do you take bombards over other similar units and why?" Never having play IG myself, I never understood the purpose of the Bombard, especialy when they are taken in lieu of manticores. Personally, it seems to me like they should be MWs, but with 30cm range (but I don't want to open any old wounds).

So, do bombards pop up in tourney style games as ofen as manticores? In your own experience, what's the rate of occurence of the different IG arty?


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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:03 am 
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Bombards are unbeatable in terrain heavy games. used them several times, always they proved worth their points. They fill a niche, are no no-brainers like manitcore batteries, but definitly worth their points. Armor from 6+ to 5+ will add nothing to survivability, exept another senseless update proposal of a unit which is good as it is.

As always, only my 0,002 cents

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 Post subject: Bombards
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:51 am 
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I fully agree with 5+ armour...... on a different model. If the FW pattern bombard becomes Epic then that as an open topped leman russ deserves it.

The SG model doesn't, being comparable with the manticore and Mars pattern basilisk.

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