Death Korps of Krieg v1.8 |
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8  Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:52 pm |
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I don't see IG armies being flexible. That is what the variable sized forces mean.
Think of the variable sized platoon as representing attrition over the course of a campaign, rather than the army commander saying 'oh, I'd like two Shadowswords and three baneblades! Give them to me now Ad-Mech!', instead he thinks 'well I started with two Shadowswords and three baneblades, but after this month's battles I have two baneblades, and one damaged shadowsword has been rebuilt into a stormsword....'.
Edit: And that platoon is better than other lists company. So I don't really understand why make it better.
In nomenclature only.
Or are you talking about the fact that this list has 4 Super-Heavy tanks when the Steel Legion list only has two?
In which case it's the same old point of contention; The only reason I can see that all four Super-Heavy tanks aren't in the Steel Legion list was because the list writers wanted to promote SG sales over FW sales...
How come Battlefleet Gothic has FW models as part of its core range, yet Epic has none?
It can only be down to inter-departmental rivalries, and as such that's not something we need to care about.
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8 Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:05 pm |
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this feel came from readinf the story on IA3
Interesting.
I allowed 2 SHT's in a formation only due to IA:3, in which one of the regiments has 3 Baneblades and 2 Shadowswords (12th Tallarn).
IMO the lists should represent this instead of what the army looks like half way into the campaign.
Note then that the Steel Legion list itself is specifically intended as representing a Regiment that is half way into a campaign.
Ref: The designer's notes on the Steel Legion armylist in the 'making your own units' section of the rulebook IIRC.
That's not what I meant. I meant that pair of tanks is something that I'd use instead of three. It balances the activations and durability probably better. So allowing that kind of variability makes that selection better than others super heavy tank company. And that is feels wrong (as it is a support formation).
Definitely something worth bearing in mind.
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8 Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:26 pm |
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Page 146.
"If we take a Steel Legion Infantry Company as an example of this process (Designing an armylist), then a newly raised company would probably have twice as many units as the formation shown in the Steel Legion army list (ie, about 24 instead of 12), but as it is green and inexperienced should probably have an initiative value of 3+. The same company at the end of a campaign might be reduced to half a dozen stands.... .... you get the idea I'm sure."
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J0k3r
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Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:48 am |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:18 pm
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Location: Edinburgh, UK
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On the flexible use of SHT's I think that E&C's solution is an eminantly sensibe one. From my experience of trying to build a DKOK force I have found t very difficult to file more than one or two SHT's in total given the high companycosts/limited nos of support slots. The available options as I see it are:
1) SHT's as a company option as well as a support slot, however this detracts from the infantry heavy focus of the list and was argued against early in the list evelopment
2) fix the number of SHT's in the support opion, however there is no ideal number here.- SL has the option of fielding SHT's singly or in threes, surely DKOK should have at least that flexibility
3) Have a flexible formation sizes and cope with the fudge of 1 tank being a platoon, while 2-3 are a company that has a platoon status in the army list for balance reasons. The only problem here is losing the company discount.
SHV's are suposed to be iconic pieces of DK kit, so the flexibility of option 3 alow you to squeeze them in where points are available as well as fielding them en mas
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:56 pm |
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I know that you have probably gone over this a thousand times already, but please bear with me. I have only ust had this revalation.
It is to do with the number of variants in the list (mainly that of SHTs). I know that you want the variants because there are all the cool FW models out there and the only reason that the steel legion doesn't have them is because of the whole "don't give sales to FW thingy".
However I think that they dilute the feeling of what the death Korps is about, which is breaking sieges, I'm sure someone has said that they are an assault siege army compared to the Baran defensive style.
As such I don't think that the shadowsword should be part of the list. It is a deadicated titan killer and wouldn't be deployed where there are no titans to kill (since titans are not deployed in a defensive manner).
The Baneblade is a general Imperium all rounder, massive and covered in guns. It would be the mainstay of any SHT company
The Storm sword is designed to get amongst the enemy and fry them with flamers or destroy their fortifications with its big gun. Definatly something that would appeal to the DKoK.
Finally there is the poor mans Shadowsword. However I think it would work well for bunker clearance (from a fluff point of view). Plasma in 40k acts like a flamer, so it would wash into the firing slits, killing the defenders, but leaving the bunks for the DK to claim as they advance.
So, in ending I'm asking if the Shadow sword is really needed? The list still has Deathstikes, Warlords and a (possible) bucketload of Plasma blast guns to deal with WEs.
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:05 pm |
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If there is a problem in getting SHTs into armies, then allow one as a upgrade to a company. That way the infantry company can have a super heavy rolling along with them.
Not a bad idea.
Infantry Company-
- 2x Gorgons
- 2x SHT's
Now that's a tough nut to crack, and also gives ablative protection to the vulnerable Gorgons (Watching one of those things die is horrible!).
So, in ending I'm asking if the Shadow sword is really needed?
Fluffwise, Stormswords are rebuilt Shadowsword hulls... so if you have Stormswords, you have to have Shadowswords...
Heck, the Barran PDF force get Shadowswords, there's no reason to deny them to the Death Korps.
EDIT: Plus, IA:1 has examples of the Death Korps using them IIRC.
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:11 pm |
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Again I'll state that I disagree with the shadowsword being there.
If the PDF Barrans get it, then the Death Korps get it. It's staying.
Note that only one upgrade of same type so there could be only on SHT.
Ah forgot that.
Replace one SHT with three Hellhounds. 
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8 Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:11 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Location: Reading, England
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I agree with Hena. Just because a list can have something and background shows that they have used it before, doesn't mean that it is part of their normal arsnal.
Baran have Shadowswrod to take down approaching titans and SHTs.
DKoK will be attacking armies without titan support, so what need such massive anti-titan weapons.
Another example is my Space marine chapter (Possible the only variant list I have made that I can finish, since I don't need t convert dozens of OOP minatures). In their armoury, they have a dozen whirlwinds and a Helios variant Land raider, however they wont appear on their FOC, since they are not part of their usual tactics.
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