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Elysian Drop Troop
Cosmic Serpent	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:26 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:56 am Posts: 137 Location: Chicago	I too would be curious why you'd want to shy away from support Sentinels?  The only problem I would see is that all other units equipped with rocket pods are one shot weapons.  Having four Sentinels each with a one shot weapon doesn't seem all that great, but that's how the rocket pods appear to be done? I think most armies get plenty of support options (looking quickly they get an arty company, a support option in the form of arty or missile battery and an upgrade option in the Griffons), Elysians on the other hand eliminate most of those options (seeing as we have no armor) - so having Sentinels in addition to mortar teams is nice - but still less than most units from a fire support perspective.  I guess you really have to add in Valkyries with their missile pods as well though - as a flight of Valkyries can be very deadly - but again, one shot weapons. Speaking of mortar teams - I don't think I have seen any rules for them, and thinking about it - maybe it is one blast marker per two teams?  If they were organized like the standard fire support teams - that would equate to four teams, and at a marker per two teams - that's two markers.  Not as effective as most artillery in the game - but I would agree with that - they are light artillery at best. Point wise I could see them being pretty much like the Fire Support Platoons - 100 points for four stands.
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Cosmic Serpent	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:31 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:56 am Posts: 137 Location: Chicago	Going back and taking a look at IA3 again to see what other units are in there and the TO&E - the only thing I think we've really left out is the Cyclops demo teams and Tarantulas - both of which I don't think are core to the army.  I think (can't recall) that Cyclops have been discussed, and maybe Tarantulas as well.   I think we've covered Storm Troopers pretty well, Hardened Vets pretty well, and the Demo Charges/Special Weapons squads (maybe not Special Weapons squads all that great - they seem to be factored in with the demo charges to some degree). All in all, I think we are getting very close on our core units (maybe not price wise) but at least forming a good groundwork.  Really I just need to see the list - eagerly awaiting the 13th - then I think once we see it on paper we'll go back and revaluate everything and see what is still on the drawing board. Oh - looking forward to the Eldar battle report as well.....
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Legion 4	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:57 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36989 Location: Ohio - USA	Almost all Infantry Bns have mortars ... been in 4 Inf Bns ... I know ... ?Mortars are not artillery ... they are crewed by Infantrymen ... ?But do what works for you ! ?These Elys are based on the fluff and Honda's vision based what he wants... ? ? ?ABN/Air Asslt units have TOWs (Hvy AT Missiles) mounted on Jeeps/HMMVs. That's how we killed AFVs so AT armed Sentinals would be appropriate. ?Plus shoulder launched AT weapons (LAWs, AT4s, Dragons, Javelins,etc.) humped by Grunts. ? ?Gunships (Vultures = AH64s/Cobras) + CAS again, would be critical. ?And some sort of long range Artillery, and/or Naval Gunfire (Space Craft) ... At least after commanding a Rifle Plt and then being a Bn S-3 Air in the 101 ... that's how I'd do it ! ? ? _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Tactica	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:20 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	I'd like to see the support sentinel as well, its a main part of the Elysian list and the first time you see it make an appearence. Then again, same goes for their missle launcher sentinel. Although the missle launcher support sentinel doesn't have scout, it does have the capability to fire indirect in 40K - first  for a sentinel to do that too. Ironically, the IA3 says the Elysians make heavy use of the sentinels and do drop in sentinel companys even - LOL, but at best, i can only see sentinels as supporting contingents in E:A - after all, the focus is the Elysians, not the sentinels. Make no mistake though, the Elysians field 4 very unique style of sentinels. Drop Sentinels - no scout, but does teleport  Heavy Bolter  Multi-Melta Support Sentinels - no scout and no teleport  Multiple Rocket Pod  Rocket Launcher (with Indirect Fire option) _________________ Rob
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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:58 am

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

Speaking of mortar teams - I don't think I have seen any rules for them, and thinking about it - maybe it is one blast marker per two teams?  If they were organized like the standard fire support teams - that would equate to four teams, and at a marker per two teams - that's two markers.  Not as effective as most artillery in the game - but I would agree with that - they are light artillery at best. How very observant!   When I get the new version up, there won't be any mortars in it. I did that on purpose because I want us to talk about them. Currently, I've borrowed the equivalent SL "support" sections to for the drop companies, but in reality, that's not what the Elysians used. In fact, it is mentioned in IA3 during the Operation Comet lift, where the Elysians were struggling in an assault, brought in mortars and then continued the attack. My current vision for these is as a replacement for or an additional support type for the drop companies. I'm thinking that their specific purpose is to put a blast marker on the unit to be assaulted. We'd need to talk about the mechanics around that. At MOST, I see them being 1-2 BM units, but again, this needs to be discussed. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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The_Real_Chris	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:51 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London	Bit more on sentinels in a bit (for one - modelling the sods!), but mortar wise what I've tested for siegemasters were alternative to fire support stands and modeled after thudds and rapiers. Three mortars to a stand, 1bp per unit, 10cm move, no save, no CC, FF 5+, range 30cm, indirect, 100 points for three units (3BP in total). Since you aren't dodgy siegemaster troops I wouldn't object to getting CC6+ and move 15cm for no increase in points _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:33 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

Bit more on sentinels in a bit (for one - modelling the sods!), but mortar wise what I've tested for siegemasters were alternative to fire support stands and modeled after thudds and rapiers. Three mortars to a stand, 1bp per unit, 10cm move, no save, no CC, FF 5+, range 30cm, indirect, 100 points for three units (3BP in total). Since you aren't dodgy siegemaster troops I wouldn't object to getting CC6+ and move 15cm for no increase in points I like that suggestion. I'll get it in the new list as the starting point. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Legion 4	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:19 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36989 Location: Ohio - USA	We still use SM1/SM2 M/Mortars ... there are rules in the E:A rules in the collectors section if IIRC ... Our SMs, IG & Squats still use them ... Mortars have been a staple for many infantry units since late WWI.  We had 81mm at Co. and 4.2 inch at Bn initially ...     _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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J0k3r	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:58 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:18 pm Posts: 876 Location: Edinburgh, UK	Hi, First off I really like the Elysian list and once ive got suitable proxies im looking forward to playtesting the army against my Orks. I have been looking at the list and noticed a lack of organic AA formations in the list.  I was wondering if there may be a role for support squads carrying short range SAM's, something along the lines of: Drop Troop SAM Squad speed 15  armour N/A CC6+ FF5+ Weapon Hellshrike SAM  45cm AT6+/AA6+ WHile there is no basis in the 40k fluff for formations like this, I think that in EA where airpower is a greater threat Paratroopers would be loathe to rely upon the imperial navy for aircover.  What are your thoughts? Cheers _________________ "Do not offend the Chair Leg of Truth; it is wise and terrible." -Spider Jerusalem
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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 4:31 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

@J0k3r Hi, First off I really like the Elysian list and once ive got suitable proxies im looking forward to playtesting the army against my Orks. I'm glad you like the list. The team has spent a fair amount of effort to get it this far. It is certainly a lot of fun and can be very challenging experience. I would caution that it is not something that you pick up and master in a game or two. I'm still in the process of learning how the list fits with my playing style. Please do post any battle reports as I am very interested in seeing how others view and use the list. I have been looking at the list and noticed a lack of organic AA formations in the list. ?I was wondering if there may be a role for support squads carrying short range SAM's, something along the lines of: Drop Troop SAM Squad speed 15 ?armour N/A CC6+ FF5+ Weapon Hellshrike SAM ?45cm AT6+/AA6+ WHile there is no basis in the 40k fluff for formations like this, I think that in EA where airpower is a greater threat Paratroopers would be loathe to rely upon the imperial navy for aircover. ?What are your thoughts?

Because of the Elysian TO&E, there are some very distinct weaknesses inherent in the list.

This is intentional.

Imperial Armor 3 is the "bible" as far as how this list is defined. Early on when I was looking to create something similar to the Elysians, it was quite apparent that lots of people had ideas on Airborne/Air Mobile forces and I could see that unless the list development was anchored on something concrete, then we could find ourselves involved in endless debates about what should or should not be in the list. I did not think that was the kind of exercise I wanted the development to be drawn into.

So, I didn't want to appear to be a jerk about suggestions to the list just because it wasn't part of "my" vision. So in adopting IA3 as the source book, I only have to be a jerk about holding true to the source.  

There are several weaknesses in this list. The lack of AA is just one of those weaknesses imposed on us by the TO&E. However, that doesn't mean that you don't have an answer to air attacks. The Elysians do, it's the Imperial Navy. IA3 was very clear on that point. The Elysians are very dependent on the IN and will suffer accordingly in their absence. However, I think you'll find the Lightning fighter is a very credible interdictor and should be used accordingly.

These gaps in functionality are no different than what current day Airborne/Air Mobile forces are faced with today.

So, although it would be easy to add something as you proposed, I will ask you to consider looking at the tools you have at your disposal and building your battle plans around them. After all, it is very rare that those who deal in war get what they want, often times they barely get what they need (all apologies to the Rolling Stones ? ?).