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Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3

 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:29 am 
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IIRC weren't stats for those in the "Collector's" section of the E:A rules ?  Yes, just checked, both Lightenings & M/Dest. were in there. Or are those now disregarded and/or surpassed ?

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:00 pm 
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There are 3 different stat sets for the FW aircraft at the moment...

- The 'collector's' stats
- The Taros Campaign book's stats
- The Elysian Drop Troops army list stats


I've chosen to use the set of stats from the Elysian armylist as it appears those are the only ones that have actually been playtested!!!


After all, the Collector's stats were basically just thrown together without any testing, while the writer of the Taros Campaign book didn't even know how Epic: Armageddon's turn sequence worked until I told him!

On the other hand, the Elysian list has been extensively playtested... so basically there was only one sensible choice...

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:19 pm 
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Honda (Elysian author) tends to put things together on the conservative side- another good reason to use his stats.

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:15 pm 
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Remember the Marauder Bomber has 4 or 5 different stats depending on the list it appears in to include the ATML list.  Also the 2 Marauder variants have varying Armour and Damage Capactiy.

It also brings up whether or not we change the Thunderbolt to be the FW Thunderbolt.

Things I am of the opinion that the everything that participates in Air Combat needs to be re-evaluated and brought closer to what the background gives.  A great example of this is the Hydra's pair of Twin-Linked Long Autocannons have the same range as the Imperial Guard infantry Autocannons.  This would extend to the Long Autocannon on the Lightning.

But this will stray off topic and lead to a topic that a lot of people say will make airpower over powered.

So - Super-Heavy Support Company? I like the idea.

TK(1) weapon for the Laser Destroyer, well it is a MW then and can still attack infantry.  Unless we can call it 75 cm  AT2+ Titan Killer (1).  That makes it an excellent weapon, but just against Tanks and Titans.

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:22 pm 
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I'm all for standardization - but DWWFY all ! :)

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:45 pm 
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For the Destroyer, maybe the only solution is a special rule (a one liner on the stat box should do it).  I personally hate to see it go that way, but oh well.

My other thought is perhaps pulling the Destroyer out of the Russ formations all together.  Set them up as scouts so that they can garrison, make it 4 to a formation, AT2+, 75cm range, 4 to a formation, 300 points.

Thoughts?

Oh and my understanding is that ranges on aircraft weapons do not (and should not) match ground weapons due to their position on the board (no cover, etc).

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:11 pm 
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A reconnaissance force can have both mortar and artillery support. The United States Army Armored Cavalry Regiment, Heavy, has both in addition to tanks. During Desert Storm, it was used as a spearhead for the U.S. Army's V Corp during its advance into Iraq. It was used more like a small armored division. As a matter of fact, it was more like a pure armored division than a traditional reconnaissance unit; the only infantry it has were dismounted cavalry troops.

Thus using the Epic Armageddon Steel Legion Army list and the U.S. Army Armored Cavalry Regiment, Heavy concept, an armored reconnaissance company can look something like this:

Armored Cavalry Company (400 points) using the Steel Legion Mechanized Infantry Company as a basis by using Salamanders as substitutes for Chimeras:

-1 Salamander Command Vehicle with 1 Imperial Guard Command Unit
-6 Salamander Scout Vehicles

Company Support Units (2 allowed per company):

Steel Legion Artillery Battery (250 points)
-3 Basilisks or Manticore, maybe 2 Basilisks and 1 Manticore

During Desert Storm, the U.S. Armored Cavalry Regiment, Heavy had a long range self propelled rocket launcher unit attached to it.

Sentinel Squadron (100 points)
-4 Sentinels

In Imperial Armor, Book 1, it is stated that armored reconnaissance company includes sentinel squadrons.

Company Upgrades (3 allowed per company)

Tank Squadron (200 points)
-3 Conquerors

This unit can provide fast mobile direct fire support if the reconnaissance units encounter enemy heavy units such as tanks and mechanized infantry.

Griffon battery (100 points)
-3 Griffons

The Armored Cavalry Regiment, Heavy includes self propelled mortars in its inventory.

Infantry Platoon w/Chimeras (175 points)
-6 Infantry Units, 1 unit in every two has a support weapon
  Missile launchers for scouts
  Missile launchers, autocannons, or lascannons for mechanized troops.

-3 Chimeras

You can use them as dismounted scouts or troops to hold ground. During World War II, German panzer division often included a company of mechanized troops in its mechanized reconnaissance regiment so that it can hold ground until the tanks and infantry units arrived.

Total: 1,225 or 1,425 points (See Option)

Option: You may substitute a Vulture Squadron, Four Vultures (300 points) instead of the Sentinel Squadron. The Armored Cavalry Regiment, Heavy also include an attack helicopter unit for both air and anti-tank support.

-1 Salamander Command Vehicle
-6 Salamander Scout Vehicles
-2 Basilisks
-1 Manticore
-4 Sentinels or 4 Vultures
-3 Conquerors
-3 Griffons
-3 Chimeras
-1 Imperial Guard Command Unit
-1 Infantry Platoon (30 troops)

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:02 am 
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Yes, I agree, and we've discussed this before, about the TO&E of an Armored Cav Rgt.  It is  it's own Combined Arms unit ... with organic and attached support units including FA, CE, etc. ...  And in WWII and other conflicts, many Mech/Armor Recon units had organic infantry ... and still do.   Infantry is the one of the most flexible combat arms unit in any army ... :)

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:35 am 
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I also recalled that I had discussed with someone about the same issue on another blog, the Specialist Game Forum.

For smaller games, this unit maybe somewhat underpowered; it does not have enough infantry or armor. However, in a larger group, you can use it as a flanking force, i.e. 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment spearheading U.S. Army's V Corp during Desert Storm. As a matter of fact, due to the fact that I have a large number of imperial guard epic minatures, about 5000 to 10,000 points, I would combined it with one tank battalion, 4 tank companies w/support  including heavy tanks about 56 tanks, one mechanized infantry battalion, 3 mechanized infantry w/infantry fire support teams, orgyns, snipers, about 51 chimeras, and one artillery company w/support, 6 basilisks, 3 manticores, and 3 bombards, two heavy tank company, 6 tanks, plus one regiment headquarter w/infantry fire support teams, engineer units, sentinels, vulture squadrons, fighter, and bomber squadrons, and other support units. In other words, a regiment with three separate identical modular battlegroups, each with its own reconnaissance, engineering, air support,  :) and other support units.

This formation resembles the U.S. Army's new Unit of Action Concept where each division will have identical modular brigades, 4 in each division, assigned to it based on need; the brigades are either heavy, 1 infantry, 1 armored, 1 cavalry, and 1 artillery battalion; light, 4 infantry or airborne battalions, and stryker, 4 stryker battalions. So, you can mix and match your brigades based on the mission.  As a fact, in addition to the models that I mentioned above, I also have a drop troop battalion; 4 companies of stormtroopers, 160 models; 4 drop infantry companies w/one fire support team using the old imperial guard assault troops model, one sentinel squadrons per company, plus enough valkyres for support and vultures for air and heavy support.

This concept was used by the British I  Armored Division during Iraq Freedom. The unit consist of three brigades: one armored with tanks, mechanised infantry, heavy artillery, engineer units, air support;  one airborne brigade, e. g. drop troops in epic; one commando brigade, e.g. equivalent to stormtroopers in epic since they are both used in a special force, rapid reaction type of role.





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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:59 am 
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Yes, the UA is kind of the new "evolved" version of the old Rgtl Cbt Tm concept ... but better ! (BTW I served in an Air Asslt Bn [Rfl Plt Ldr] and 3 Mech Bns [Mech Co Cdr -M113s]. You have have a lot of IG there (I have IG 6 Rgts - SM1 MTO&Es !)! I too have an Assault Co. of the old IG Jump Troops - a good equivalent of ABN and Storm Troops = RM Cdos works too.

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:01 am 
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careful - the non US guys do not always like the idea of US org structure being the basis.  

Beman just to give you a quick heads up atm L4 is considered the US Ground Forces expert by many. (dang it ... L4 presented his creds before I finished the post)

Just to throw another organization in there - the Marine Corp considers every one of their marines an infantry man first and then their "job".  So even their fighter pilots are trained to be infantry officers early on.





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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:27 am 
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Yes, I know, the UK, Russians, etc. have somewhat similar TO&Es ... Like Russian Tank Plts = 3 AFVs, and a US = 4, while some still use 5 ...  And the USMC is famous for saying everyone is trained as a rifleman ... most Armies could make the same statement.  But the quality varies greatly ...  Infantry are the most numerous of any branch in all armies ... for a number of reasons.  And as you pointed out, "O", the USAF even trains their officers for ground ops.  And thanks for "trying" to post my "credentials" !  I don't mention those as "posturing", but to give my comments some sort of "Credibility" ... :D Thanks again !

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:28 am 
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I guess it just proves the point, those who play Epic or Warhammer 40k tend to either have military experience or a military history buff like myself.  I guess we are lot more intelligent than most people.

As for the space marines, there is something I don't understand. In particularly all armies, scouts and snipers are considered to be elite units. The US Marines, the closest real life unit to the Space Marines, have snipers in their most elite unit, Marine Force Recon, who are an elite scout unit as well as an elite tinfantry unit. Yet, with the exception of the Space Wolf chapter, scouts and snipers are considered to be the least experience unit.  Even in the Imperial Guard, scouts and snipers are considered to be an elite unit even though most of their infantry  units are considered to be inferior to the Space Marines, the only exception are Ogyrns, Snipers, Stormtroopers, and mechanized infantry units which are at least equal to the Space Marines infantry units.

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:45 am 
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That is a topic for another thread ;)

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 Post subject: Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment V1.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:35 am 
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Yep, start a thread and we'll go for it !  :D   But generally G/W's fluff is, well down right silly many times !  :)

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