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Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:55 am 
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This is for the Elysian Drop Troopers regiment. It needs consolidation, some new 'Epic units' (heavy IG lander, Dan Abotts heavy transports etc) and testing.

I would ask all interested parties to finish discussion and list consolidation by the end of the week and get lots of games in by the end of the month!

Current discussion is here.

I'll do a Word doc version shortly, after people have said anything they want to add, major problems, fluff stuff or extra things that should be in there. Also I'll put in a couple of units suggestions (heavy transport and space lander). Anything else people would like to see in it, please say!

Note Honda doesn't seem to be about, which is why I'm leaping in.




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:48 pm 
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Should the discussion continue in the Elysians thread or here?
Same question for the other threads.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:53 pm 
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It needs consolidation, some new 'Epic units' (heavy IG lander, Dan Abotts heavy transports etc) and testing.


Random thought:

Is the 'Landing Craft' a Space Marine only piece of kit?

Or could it perhaps transport 4 Valkyries or Vultures, plus infantry, to the planet's surface?

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:55 pm 
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It says Space Marine Landing Craft and not Imperial Navy Landing Craft. So it is Space Marine only.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:58 pm 
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Aye, it's space marine only, so far...

... I'm just thinking, if a space lander is required, a proxy of the SM Landing Craft as an IG Landing Craft would be a good place to start.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:01 pm 
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Yes. should be abit larger because it has to transport a whole Company (13 units) plus eventual upgrades and Chimeras.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:30 pm 
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OK, my critique of the list as it stands:


- The Iron Discipline rule isn't needed. Certainly these guys are no better at rallying than Space Marines... there's no reason they need to ignore the -1 for being near enemies before breaking ; With the list known to be overpowered, I say kill it.

- Fix Commissars at 1 per 1000.

- The 'Veterans' entry is a bit of a nonsense. I own an Elysian drop troops army in 40k, and I can tell you that Sniper rifles are the last weapons you give to Veterans ; You give Meltaguns to Veterans, they're your tank killers.

- Sniper Rifles get given to special weapons squads (Which could be a new unit entry, a sniper infantry unit with Teleport).

- The Elysian squad Mortars aren't as destructive as the Heavy Mortar on a Griffon. I suggest AP4+, indirect for the light mortars, instead of a BP attack.

- Support Sentinel's weapon is mislabeled.

There are two support sentinel types in 40k ; a Missile Launcher Sentinel and a Rocket Pod Sentinel.
The Missile Launcher sentinel would have the stats given.
The Rocket Pod sentinel would have the stats of, unsurprisingly, a Valkyrie's Rocket Pod (1BP, One-Shot, Disrupt).

It might be interesting to have both in the list.

Here are the two variants in 40k:
Rockets:


Missiles:


- I'd drop the variant aircraft and use the standard Marauder and Thunderbolt. If the list is to have any variant aircraft, have them in addition to the pre-existing aircraft, instead of instead of* the pre-existing aircraft.

It might be interesting to see the Marauder Colossus in this list (That's the one that loses the top turret, exchanges the forward lascannons for heavy bolters, and carrys a one-shot MOAB-alike in its bomb bay, most likely a BP3 attack that uses the starship template and Ignores Cover).



* Grammar is fun.




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:42 pm 
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Surprisingly i thought about the exact same changes as E&C does :)
Apart from Veterans which feld odd to me but hadn't a sulution for.

What is with the Teleport ability? Would rather dropit and repace it with a special rule that all units disembarking from Valkyries are threated as equiped with Jumpacks units disembarking from an aircraft (due to grav-shutes) = have a 10cm disembarking move instead 5cm.

After all: Generic Stormtroopers can Deep Strike in Wh40k. The reason given is that hey are droped via grav-shutes from Valkyries.
This is already represented in the rulebook IG armylist that Stormtroopers can have Valkyries as transports.

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Dave
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:43 pm 
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I agree with most of what E&C is saying, except as follows:

Why 1/1000 Commissars though? Are they limited in 40k as with Deathworld armies?

I have always fielded Epic Snipers as Special Weapon Squads from 40k, I don't see the need for a new unit.

I initially tried mortars as 30cm, AP4+ indirect but when sustaining (which they do a lot for the range increase) the resulting AP3+ felt too good. I went with AP5+ in the latest Ork Hunter and Jopall Lists at 4 units for 100 points.

A sentinel with only a single one shot weapon seems like a horrible unit to me.  Why not make it like the Space marine Typhoon Missile Launcher, without the Twin.  Say 45cm AP4+/AT6+

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:47 pm 
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I envisioned Special Weapon squads as same stats as regular Infantry without a ranged attack but with FF4+.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:05 pm 
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Why 1/1000 Commissars though? Are they limited in 40k as with Deathworld armies?


They're not limited in any way in 40k actually.

Perhaps they should not be limited.

A sentinel with only a single one shot weapon seems like a horrible unit to me.  Why not make it like the Space marine Typhoon Missile Launcher, without the Twin.  Say 45cm AP4+/AT6+

Because it's very specifically the same rocket pod as is fitted to a Valkyrie.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:13 pm 
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And why is the Rocket Pod 30cm 1BP Disrupt, One-Shot in the first place?
I suppose it is the same as the Multiple Rocked Pod in Wh40k. And there it is a 24" S4 AP6 Heavy 1, 5" Blast weapon without one-shot.

So in essence a half ranged Missile Launcher without AT capability.
So a 30cm AP5+ weapon at most but really a 15cm AP6+ weapon or 15cm AP5+.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:21 pm 
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Black Legion:

You're thinking in 40k terms.

In an Epic battle, the rocket pod can't be reloaded, so it only has as many shots as are carried inside it.

In 40k it can only fire 2 shots at a time, whilst in Epic those shots are abstracted over 15 minutes.

So those 2 shots per 10 seconds becomes a short-lived bombardment of the area...

... then the sentinels scuttle off to secure an objective. :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:33 pm 
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Err yes...then Manticore Missiles should be 4 x one-shot too.
Heck most of the weapons in Epic should then be one-shot weapons. Or how do you think a Sentinel pilot would reload the empty energy cells of his Multi-Laser?
What will a squad of infantry do? How much ammunition do Griffons transport?

And if you come with the argument that for this Trojans are used for which are abstracted so that they aren't represented with a model in Epic then a Trojan could rearm a Valkyrie or Sentinel too.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Core IG Month regiment - Elysian Drop Troopers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:35 pm 
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I put BL into a recursive logic loop. :D



Just accept that it's the same weapon as is on a Valkyrie BL, and that some weapon stats don't match those in 40k and never will. :)




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