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Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:04 am 
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Last edited by Deb on Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:20 am 
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I have made a decision. I will trial this list without GB-A for the next 6 months. After that I will trial a list with inbult GB-AA for 6 months.

The second list will include a single formation of Elysian Sabres called an Elysian Ground defence Battery with 6 Self Planetfalling Sabres for 200 points. I wil limit it to 1 formation for every 3000 pounts. I will remove the CAP rule, and adjust the Lightning formation back to 300 points for 4.

After each list has had a 6 month trial, I will put up another poll for just the 2 options. After the poll has run its course, I will make a decision based on the results. If there is a clear and definitive winner with atleast 70% to 30% or better in its favour, then that list is the one that will be put forward for testing, and finally for approval.

If there is no clear winner, such as the results of the last poll with 55% to 45%, then I will choose the list with the GB-AA as it is the one I prefer to go with for testing.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:01 am 
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6 months is really a lot of time to playtest, maybe a little too much even

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:21 am 
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Well 3 mnths then. How many games have you had so far with this damn covid-19 thing happening. Myself I have only had 1, and only because the restrictions have been relaxed a little. It looks like the Castle Assault tournament might be on, but still unsure though. I normally had 2 games per month at the Company of dice, and they are only just now starting to play games again, but you have to already organised a game, and not just dropped in hoping to get a game.

All my gaming opponents were self isolating, clubs, and gaming stores had closed their doors to friendly games, and I could not play games with myself as the opponent, using 2 of my own armies, as that would be silly. I would also have to reorganise my already packed gaming/ storage room to make room to actually play a game.

I gave a period of time that I thought was suitable for the current covid-19 gaming hiatus. Add to that the fact that since 6 people have suddenly been found to have contracted Covid in Victoria Australia, and we have everyone staring to panic again, bulk purchase toilet paper, etc. I thought that the gaming stores would be restricting things once more.

Okay 3 months then. I would like feedback and reports on the games in the EA battle reports section though. This way I can guage how each list is performaing.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:14 am 
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Based on the 2 games I have had so far, I worked out that the army is not as able to handle anyone with an army that has a combination of ground based AA and their own aircraft.

The Lightnings are only reasonable a threat against infantry. They are durable but tend to be destroyed or nearly destroyed by turn 3, even with 4 aircraft in the formation.

The Lightning strike fighters are a bit better at taking out enemy, but again they are gone, or left with 1 aircraft in each squadron by turn 3. They can tackle enemy armour pretty well, but again not good at tackling infantry.

In both games the enemy aircraft formations lasted pretty well. While mine had twice as many casualties. The orks were especially resiliant, and good at tackling both AT and AP.

The enemy who had ground based AA mixed with their normal ground formations faired really well when it came to having a good Anti-AA bubble. This made it harder to kill off their broken formations. While my formatons that were on the table from turn 1, were killed off easily once broken, as my own aircraft could not protect them well.

The list did perform a little once the bulk of the force had self planetfell. I was then able to overwhelm and area, providing the defenders were able to be broken or drawn off.

The spaceships Bombardment was hit and miss. One game it hit on target, but I rolled badly to hurt anyone, as the enemy were in cover, so the -1 to hit still applied. Although those hit did not get armour or cover saves. The second game, the spaceship failed to hit any enemy properly as it deviated 11cm, and the Blast marker covered 3 models killing 2.

The basic infantry drop formations performed really well, especially if I added fire support or hardened veterans to the unit.

The Grey Ghosts performed well enough, but in one game they were wiped out, while in the other, they held out - just.

Rocket sentinels are okay for their points. Not major hit, but their range 45cm 4BP attack, helps put blast markers, on the enemy before I engage, and sometimes even killed off an enemy or 2. They were generally wiped out though.

Mortars performed okay - hit and miss. good for support, but poor in assault (when assauted).

The rest of the list performed somewhat as expected. Tautus/Venators and Sentinels broke easily, and were killed off just as quick. I believe that is part of their role. Hence why I dropped their points to match.

The Stormtroopers Performed quite well. They could be used to reinforce an area where the enemy were overwhelming my own forces, or to hop on an unattended objective.

I have not tested the Line breaker column yet. I think it might perform reasonable well. But it does chew up 300 points.

I have not tested the Cyclops and the Marauder bomber variants yet. I probably would if I had GB-AA in the list.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:27 pm 
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What are the official statistics for the Imperial Lightning fighter, and the Imperial Lightning Strike Fighter?

Original Epic Armageddon book
Lightning: AC save 6+ CC na FF na 1 x lightning cannon fxf 75cm AP5+/AT6+/AA6+ 1 x tL lascannon fxf 45cm AT4+/AA5+
Lightning SF: AC save 6+ CC na FF ns 1 autocannon fxf 45cm AP5+/AT6+/AA6+ AA missiles fxf 45cm 4 x AA6+

Harkoni Warhawks list
Lightning: AC Fighter save 6+ FF - CC - long barrel AC range 45cm ap5+/at6+/aa5+ fxf Wing tip lascannon range 30cm AT5+/ AA5+ fxf
Lightning SF: AC save 6+ ff - cc - long barrel AC range 45cm ap5+/at6+/aa5+ fxf 2 x under wing rockets range 30cm AT5+/AA5+ fxf

Outdated Elysian 3.1.5 list
Lightning: AC save 6+ CC na FF na lightning AC range 30cm AA5+ fxf wingtip lascannons range 30cm AT6+/AA5+ fxf
Lightning SF: AC save 6+ CC na FF na wing tip lascannons range 30cm AT6+/AA5+ fxf 2 x underwing rockets range 30cm AT4+ fxf

Mirelli list
Lightning SF: AC save 6+ CC na FF na 2 x underwing rockets range 30cm AT4+ fxf wingtip lascannon range 30cm AT5+/AA5+ fxf

Epic UK list
Lightning SF: AC Save 6+ CC na FF na Lascannon 5cm AT5+/AA5+ fxf 2 x Underwing rockets 30cm AT4+ fxf

There is nothing consistent, and I understand that the Lightning would change over time. However The Harkoni Warhawks version looks like the most versitile without being over the top, especially for 150 points for 2 units.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:18 pm 
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I've generally liked the warhawk version

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:50 am 
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Warhawks version it is then. I like it the most. I think the original version is the most over powerful, especially with a range of 75cm.

I found the old elysian version with only AT weapons is limiting. You can not hurt an enemy infantry formation unless they are broken, and then only the one lost from the BM from being shot at.

I will update the aircraft and upload the new version 4.1.6

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:10 am 
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I had a pretty devastating game today at CoD. Nobody there had a proper 3000 point army, so I faced 1500 points from a Grgant Big Mob, and 1500 points from AMTL. There was a gargant (supreme ommander, set up for artillery, 2 super stompas set up for artllery, 2 fighta bommer sqwadrons. AMTL had a reaver set up wth 2 Quake cannons, and a landing pad, and 2 pairs of warhounds with Plasma blastguns and a vulcan mega bolter.

My force came down piecemeal. My spaceship failed to come in on turn 1, aand arrived turn 2. As my companies dropped down in turn 2, they arrived peicemeal, as they do with self palnetfall. Each was wiped out by artillery from either the reaver or the 3 ork WE. Fighta bomerz either went on CAP, or straffed my broken formations.

I lost both my drop companies, all my sentinels formatins, which I found needed to be atleast 6 strong. (even a bout of bad shooting from the orks with 6BP broke them after killing one sentinel. The the sentinels were mopped up by enemy BM attacks form the warhounds. The Grey Ghost were anhilated from Ork Artillery that was 6BP MW, and my aircraft were slaughtered between the orks falk gunz on the gargant, and their fighta bomerz. (lost one lightning SF squadron who had to jink, and were still wiped out).
My mortar company only survived because they were so far back and hidden in woods that the enemy could not see or get to them. Even the space ship was ineffectual, as it came down in turn 2, and removed 1 shield from the reaver titan.

Aside from the bout of bad dice rolls to activate, to hit, and to save. I also found out that the list has no teeth. My opponents were not afraid of the piece meal dropping hordes of lightly armoured, short ranged, easy to break (because they only have 8 units) formations. The sentinels I dropped in got to hit the enemy, performed ineffectually, an then died. The infantry units either assaulted and broke after ineffectual results against WE with shields, RA, and lots of DC to absorb the attacks I made, normlly with another WE nearby for supporting fire power or shot and tried to remove shields and add blast markers, and then got pummeled.

When I ran and hid, it was useless as the broken units were straffed, or bombarded with artillery that was MW. My vultures killed off 1 warhound titan early on, but they suffered from revenge shooting. Even my storm troopers were wiped out in the turn they teleported in from artillery, and I then had the surviving warhound - from the pair on enemy left flank - remove the rest with its vulcan MB and Plasma BG.

During the entire game, I lost the Regimental Command Company [BTS], 2 drop companies, rocket sentinels, scout sentinels, drop sentinels, vultures, one lightning SF squadron, half the lightning squadron, the grey ghosts, the Storm troopers. Surviving were a lightning SF squadron because they failed to activate on thurn 3, and the mortar company who were out of range and hidden for most of the game, and made one ineffectual attack which removed 2 Gargant shields.

I took quite a few photos, but then forgot as the game went on. I also tried to take notes, but that just got annoying, and distracted me from watching the game, and trying to work out how to get out of trouble.

Feedback from the game. I know it will not be popular, but this list needs some fire power. One suggestion for an opponent is to have some sort of spotter and allow off board artillery. I said that the NERC and people on this site would never allow it. The 1 shot missiles on the vultures make then expensive, and it was suggested to make the missiles a simple 1 BM missile attack, and not have them one shot, but at a shorter range. I told my opponent that such an idea would also not be allowed. The another suggestion was made that the list needed more sentinels and guard units in the drop forces to allow them to survive. Again I said it would be Vetoed.

At this point my opponent said I should make my own list up and well I would say what they said about the NERC and their *&&%% rules about list building lists.

Personally I think the sentinels need to be increased to a formation of 6 which can be 150 points. The Elysians should have a range 45cm weapon rather than a range 30cm weapon. Either that or have the base formation size increased at a slight points increase. I think self planetfall is a weakness, as you are forced to drop the formations piece meal upto 2 at a time, which means the enemy can then break them, or kill them off.

I think self planetfall should be repaced with planetfall timed to drop in the turn the spaeship arrives. This way you will drop every formation all at one go, after the spaceship has fired its weapons, then the enemy has too many targets to worry about, and you might be able to use commanders ability to perform combined assaults. The short ranged artillery is practically a waste of time. I like the idea of spotters, and I think one of the drop ists has them already. I think a single Sabre AA unit could be attached as an upgrade to a core drop company, mortar compny and the reginental HQ.

I know that many of the changes I want to make are going to be unpopular with some people.

I might design my own drop ist and see if that will work. Another suggestion was to get all the Australian big power hitters from Newcastle, Perth, Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney together and propose a list for if not the Elysians, then perhaps a light horse drop assault army and trial test it in the Australian wargaming scene as we in Australia will probably never face off against oppponents from overseas in a tournament environment. This way ideas that we know will never get accepted in the NetEA/UK scenes will probably be able to be tested and finally accepted into a fun and exciting list that is not OP, but certainly will make a army like a Guard drop/ air cav list to work fairly and able to be played in Australian tournaments.

I will probably put forward a basic list for the Elysians replacing the self planetfall with planetfall, and possiblty adding in a sabre as an optional upgrade for the core formations for 25 points. I would also increase the sentinels squad by 2 and increase the points by 50 points.

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6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.


Last edited by Deb on Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:55 pm 
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The version 4.2.0 will probably not be accepted well.

Even if does not eventuate as this version, I will probably make this version of the list into a fan based list. which I will call the Paramar Light Horse Air Cav/ Drop Regiments list and offer for trial in the Australian Tournament scene - EpicAU.

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