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Urgent! SL changes

 Post subject: Re: Urgent! SL changes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:18 pm 
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I agree with Steve. I'm unconvinced on the need for a price rise on them (in any list) ... happy to test them at level though if asked to.

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 Post subject: Re: Urgent! SL changes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Rug wrote:
SR affects the army, not individual FMs.
This seems a bit backwards to me. Surely you mean:
SR affects the army, including all individual FMs.

Of course a better strategy rating needs to be paid for somehow. And it just so happens that in this case, we're discussing the type of unit that arguably benefits the most from a significantly higher strategy rating. I say arguably, as you could conceivably make a case that teleporters benefit similarly. In fact isn't the poor SR a recognised issue with the Elysian list for both teleporting and CAP, and that Epic UK has a special "may start on CAP" special rule for Vanaheim? To me it is absolutely clear that some units are affected more by strategy rating than others, but even if you don't agree, surely you must acknowledge that the cost must be borne somewhere?

It seems logical to surmise that SMs pay for their army-wide and SM-specific rules in the costs of their formations - why else are they so expensive. The same is true for Eldar, who pay for Hit and Run. I see no reason why this should not be the case for every unit in the list that benefits from them.

The only question for me is if the benefit is significant enough to warrant an actual change in points cost. I'd be inclined to say yes because CAP is so important for interceptors but I think you do make a good point:

Rug wrote:
AA is more important to Guard as they're more vulnerable to assaults.


The above is a decent argument.

Rug wrote:
T-Bolts are a choice for Guard which doesn't require a Company, Marines don't benefit in the same way.
Marines have T-Hawks, way more useful than T-Bolts, soon to only be 25pts extra.
T-Bolts add an Int2 unit to an Int1 Marine army, Guard don't suffer this burden.


Not as sure about these, they are all about other units which have their own points costs - none change the value of the Tbolts themselves because they work in the same way in both lists. To put it another way, if SMs had a hypothetical TBolt formation with Int1 and another at Int2, you wouldn't make the Int2 ones cheaper, you'd make the Int1 ones more expensive.

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 Post subject: Re: Urgent! SL changes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:25 pm 
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Vanaheim has a special rule that they can start on CAP as they have no ground flak + a low SR. SL have plenty of ground flak.

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 Post subject: Re: Urgent! SL changes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:40 am 
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Steve54 wrote:
Vanaheim has a special rule that they can start on CAP as they have no ground flak + a low SR. SL have plenty of ground flak.

Not sure what point you're making? How does having flak make TBolts worth more in SL compared to SM to offset their poor SR? Especially since SM also have plenty of flak.

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 Post subject: Re: Urgent! SL changes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:43 am 
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How exactly do SM have plenty of flak? 1-3 hunters normally

Vanaheim had their SR as a combination of low SR+no ground flak means they rarely get go first. If they do not go first and have no flak then they can get air assaulted/ground attacked with nothing to prevent it. SL do not have this problem as they have hydras to protect them from a 1st activation air attack.

Having a lower SR affects ground SL units as it means they are less likely to go first so will be in danger from opponents ground units activating first but tbolts are not as there is no imperative to activate them first due to SL already having good flak protection.

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