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Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.

 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:17 pm 
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I'm just doing a final pass over Epic:Siege before uploading the final version, and I've created a box for optional (non-tournament official) rules suggestions for Krieg armies.

Currently I have:

- Leman Russ tanks may remove sponson weapons for -10 points.
- Leman Russ tanks may add pintle-mounted Heavy Stubbers for +2 points.
- Trench Rails (Walker) may be added to Leman Russ Tanks for +10 points.

I have space for another 2 or 3 "fun" rules suggestions, anyone care to add anything?

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 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:22 pm 
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Gas attacks?

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 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:32 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Jan. 12 2010, 16:17 )

- Leman Russ tanks may remove sponson weapons for -10 points.
- Leman Russ tanks may add pintle-mounted Heavy Stubbers for +2 points.
- Trench Rails (Walker) may be added to Leman Russ Tanks for +10 points.

Sounds amusing.

The only issue I can think of is that Demolishers minus sponsons would be pretty darn good assault formations, with 3+FF and 4+RA.

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 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:54 pm 
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Great to seem these! :) :smile: :agree:

Neal may have a point though. Should the Demolishers - possibly all the Russes - loose a point of FF as it only has two guns then rather than 4? (though 3 if it has a heavy stubber).

Can we add rules for Cyclops please! It's mentioned Krieg use a lot of those to attack enemy bunkers and that. Make them one use exploding weapons - can always add a special rule relating to it, these are optional rules.

Stick true to W40k Bombard stats in as optional rules perhaps? I certainly still plan to use them that way even though it hasn't made the list.

Is 2 points perhaps a little cheap for an extra 30cm AP6+ attack? Maybe 3 points?


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 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Someone mentioned razorwire and minefields a while back. I think RW could represent difficult terrain, not sure of the cost. Minefields could go a number of different ways.

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 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Thinking about it a bit more how about something along the lines of:

0-3 Cyclops may be added to a Krieg Infantry Company or Regimental HQ for 15pts each.
15cm Light Vehicle 6+ armour no CC or FF capability
Weapon: Detonate! Range 30cm AP3+/AT4+ One-Shot
Notes: once a Cyclops has made it's Detonate! attack it is destroyed and removed from play, however this does NOT cause a blast marker on it's own formation.

Also I think trench rails as you have them with walker are too good and likely to be used abusively. A trench rail specifically helps a tank stay upright while crossing the gap of a trench, but makes zero difference to it's ability to traverse woods or ruins, which walker would. You'll just get Krieg/Vraksian tanks spending loads of time in woods/ruins for the -1 where normal ones wouldn't dare. How about you make Trench Rails allow a vehicle to count as having walker when crossing trenches only? (Trenches are difficult terrain for vehicles, yes? We've been playing they are anyway) Drop the points down correspondingly, maybe to 2-3 points so in combination with the Heavy Stubber it'd at least be a round number.

Maybe razorwire should even be dangerous terrain terrain for infantry? It looks like pretty sharp, slicey stuff, we have some of it in our back garden as it happens.


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 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:06 pm 
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Also you may want to consider making it -15 points for Demolishers loosing their sponsons as their guns look possibly worth more?


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 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Quote: (GlynG @ Jan. 14 2010, 15:01 )

Thinking about it a bit more how about something along the lines of:

0-3 Cyclops may be added to a Krieg Infantry Company or Regimental HQ for 15pts each.
15cm Light Vehicle 6+ armour no CC or FF capability
Weapon: Detonate! Range 30cm AP3+/AT4+ One-Shot
Notes: once a Cyclops has made it's Detonate! attack it is destroyed and removed from play, however this does NOT cause a blast marker on it's own formation.

Makes me wish that we'd considered including one six months ago!

My gut tells me that a flat 3 units for 50pts would be better than 0-3.

The weapon should have Ignores Cover?, as it's basically a Demolisher Cannon shot.

Quote: 

Also I think trench rails as you have them with walker are too good and likely to be used abusively. A trench rail specifically helps a tank stay upright while crossing the gap of a trench, but makes zero difference to it's ability to traverse woods or ruins, which walker would. You'll just get Krieg/Vraksian tanks spending loads of time in woods/ruins for the -1 where normal ones wouldn't dare. How about you make Trench Rails allow a vehicle to count as having walker when crossing trenches only? (Trenches are difficult terrain for vehicles, yes? We've been playing they are anyway) Drop the points down correspondingly, maybe to 2-3 points so in combination with the Heavy Stubber it'd at least be a round number.

Maybe all three "fluff upgrades could be wrapped up together (Heavy Stubber, No Sponsons, Trench Rails).

Quote: 

Maybe razorwire should even be dangerous terrain terrain for infantry? It looks like pretty sharp, slicey stuff, we have some of it in our back garden as it happens.

It is, in the Mossinian rules.

Krieg don't normally have access to it in this list because I wanted this list to be the "offensive" Siege list, so sitting behind barriers of Razorwire and Minefields etc whilst shelling the enemy with artillery wouldn't be the best option.

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 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:13 pm 
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Quote: (GlynG @ Jan. 14 2010, 15:06 )

Also you may want to consider making it -15 points for Demolishers loosing their sponsons as their guns look possibly worth more?

Probably will do something with the Firefight ratings of tanks that lose their Sponsons.

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 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:14 am 
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AFAIK historically trench rails where only used on the french Renault FT-17. He needed it because the tank was very front heavy and tended to topple over if it drove into a sink. The trench rails where filled with counter weights to mitigate this.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....ram.jpg

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 Post subject: Krieg Optional (non-tournament) rules.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:33 am 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Jan. 14 2010, 15:12 )

My gut tells me that a flat 3 units for 50pts would be better than 0-3.

The weapon should have Ignores Cover?, as it's basically a Demolisher Cannon shot.

3 for 50 would be good. Could well have ignore cover, yes. Vraks book 1 lists it as strength 8 and AP2 and didn't mention anything about ignore cover as such. Does W40k have an ignore cover special rule as such anyway? I forget. I was in a rush before heading out so I didn't check Demolisher stats for comparison. The Cyclops having ignore cover would make sense for it's role vs bunkers and that and would make it a more worth it choice for something that only gets to attack once before being removed.
Quote: 

Maybe all three "fluff upgrades could be wrapped up together (Heavy Stubber, No Sponsons, Trench Rails).

Sounds fine, I'd be quite happy to have them all combined into one, would be either/or normal or 'fluffy' version then and less fiddly, which epic isn't exactly known for.

At least there are rules for Razorwire in the supplement anyway, which is the main thing. Simple enough for someone to then unofficially use it with their Krieg occasionally if they did want to.


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