Note: This is just an exploratory line of thought.

As posted above, from a fluff perspective, it seems like the Krieg ought to be able to demonstrate their superior logistics by fielding more powerful equipment and formations. In particular, it seems a little odd to me that the Vraksian renegades are capable of using the same equipment as the Krieg more efficiently as evidenced by the Vraksian artillery company as a core choice vs. the Krieg nearly similar formation only as a support formation.

Now E&C posits that it is for play balance that the Krieg Arty Co. is a support choice vs. core and I can accept that as the decision stands.

However, in making Krieg lists I often find myself needing just one more Support and it occurred to me that if the Arty Co. was a core...well you get the idea. Now I know that making a list is always about choices, but it does seem like there is some justification for placing the Arty Co. in core. to free up that one slot IF it doesn't mess everything else up.

Now the final and most important issue to address is balance, which is the reason for why things are the way they are...and I wouldn't want to propose a change that completely tips over the list.

That being said, would you (E&C) consider adding a 0-1 Artillery Company to the Core cadres with an option of taking additional artillery companies as normal support choices?

Cheers,

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

I would only consider this if at the same time the Death Rider company was reduced to 0-1 per 3000pts (instead of 0-1 per 1500pts)... as I don't want too many 'core' points being able to be put into non-infantry choices; the core of a Krieg army list should always be infantry.


I agree that the list often runs short on Support Formations, meaning there is a practical limit of 10-11 activations in most army list builds. I'd note that this was an intentional choice.



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An alternative that could be considered:

- Move Death Rider Company to Support (meaning all Core choices remaining are Infantry), but increase the Core/Support ratio from 1:2 to 1:3.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Or possibly, just move the DR to support.



Agree and I don't want to mess with the flavor of the list, which I just love.


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Fair enough and that might work (1:3), though I wouldn't want the list to get diluted by lots of support choices. The Krieg should be defined by large resiliant infantry formations, which I think you've done a very good job of portraying.

The fact that the support formations are not necessarily cheap, might not mess this up too much, though I'm a little concerned that I might then go overboard on a lot of guns, making the list too static.

I will do a little list building using the framework changes 1) DR to support, 0-1 Arty. Co to Core, 2) 1:3 Support and maybe the DR at 0-1 per 3000 pts. I'm not a big fan of cavalry anyway, so I don't see that as a big draw for me. Perhaps TRC could give the proposals some attention to get the Ultra competitive perspective.

The next build I was going to test out in my next game was:

Regimental HQ 1 x SC Cmd, 19 x Inf

Infantry Co 1 x Cmd, 19 x Inf
Infantry Co 1 x Cmd, 19 x Inf
Infantry Co 1 x Cmd, 19 x Inf
Gorgons 2 x Gorgons

Artillery Co 9 x Earth Shakers

Lt. Support Btty 4 x Lt. Guns
Lt. Support Btty 4 x Lt. Guns

AA Defense 7 x Hvy AA, 2 x Hydra

Trenches 4 x Bunkers, 80cms

I still have 100 pts left over, so to burn points, I'd probably add a Fire Support upgrade to one of the foot Infantry companies.

I'll post back the other lists for comment later.

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

I really like having the DR companies in as core (I would often take 2 at 3k points), massed cavalry charges are a DK thing too.

Artillery companies are available in the list, just not as core - requiring a core of DK infantry seems no bad thing in my book. I think things should stay as they are now on this.

Yes, that was my point. I realize this may come down to a matter of preferences. You like horseys and I don't. That doesn't mean the list should change. The fact that the DR are prominent, doesn't mean they should be core.

So, I'm just expressing a difference in perspective and there may end up being reasons why we don't want to go there, but in the words of the immortal Wayne Gretsky, "You miss one hundred percent of the shots you don't take."  

Whether a change is made or not, I thought the fluff at least warranted looking at the issue. As there appear to be a fair number of Krieg armies in progress in the modeling section, I figure that if I didn't ask the question, at some point someone else would.

This way I have the distinct honor of being the first one that E&C tells to take a hike.  

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment