SG Article Marine Units |
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CAL001
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units  Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:06 am |
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After my last post on Scout Bikes, I thought I would start a thread related to starting an article on new units for marine list. So what new units that we have discussed in the past should be added in the article. For me the following are on the board;
Scout Bikes
Thunderhawk Transport
Land Raider Helios
Dreadnaught with Multimelta (since it comes in the blister)
Land Speeder with Heavy Flamer & Multimelta (once again they are in the blister)
So what do you think?
CAL
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:27 am |
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Scout Bikes
Possibly.
As long as they were implemented correctly.
Thunderhawk Transport
Certainly.
The Thunderhawk Transporters are a major addition to the Space Marine model range and will require a decent set of rules.
Land Raider Helios
Certainly.
This vehicle can easily be made with 100% GW parts (One whirlwind set & one Land raider set gets you four Helios & four hunters with no leftovers) and it is a characterful addition to the Marine army.
Dreadnaught with Multimelta (since it comes in the blister)
Certainly.
There's no reason why this guy doesn't have rules.
Land Speeder with Heavy Flamer & Multimelta (once again they are in the blister)
Really? I didn't know about this one.
Well if it's sold, and it's a variant that exists in the background (I'll have to check my Marine Codex), then it should have rules.
What this all requires really is a Space Marine Army Champion to get the ERC to enshrine some/all of them in the official rules...
If the previous Marine Champion went MIA, when will a new one be appointed?
Marines need some 'lovin. 
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J0k3r
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:38 am |
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What Evil & Chaos said 
Also how about some rarer/more chapter restricted kit. Things that come to mind include a Thawk bomber variant, LR crusader.. err.. and im sure theres other stuff too
Land Speeder with Heavy Flamer & Multimelta (once again they are in the blister)
Are they in the E:A blister? Ive got some from the E:40k era (i think..), but didnt know about them for E:A
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:42 am |
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Land Raider Crusader I'd support, provided a decent conversion guide could go with them (Even if it's as simple as 'snip off the lascannon barrels!); they're too important to leave out even if they don't have a 'stock' model on sale.
ThunderHawk Bomber I'm not so sure about, both from a gameplay POV (A 100% Marine WE Bomber force??) and from a background perspective (Untill Aeronautica Imperialis is released we won't really have a good idea of their official weapons loadout). So I'd put a pause on that one until AI is released at least.
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Lord Inquisitor
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:43 am |
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Land Raider Crusader for sure. LR Promethius? Any other LR variants?
Apothecaries/techmarines (if only for fun)?
I think such an article would be great, but if there are going to be imminent SM official changes then this might want to wait, or else be designed as a playtest-version (i.e. experimental rules).
I think it would be good to perhaps split the article, putting serious options on one side and more 'for fun' options on the other.
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consectari
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:54 am |
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I like a variety of options. I'm in favor of all these (especially the Helios).
However, I would not want them to interfere with the tweaking of the basic unit costs. Those need to be settled before any new units are thrown into the mix.
I also think some of the options really need to be reserved for specialty army lists, but no reason others couldn't eventually make it into the Codex Marine list.
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:04 am |
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I think the point cost tweaks are generally accepted as closer to being balanced by now; it's safe to start thinking about what's next for the Marines.
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consectari
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:34 am |
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What is looking to become official?
More detailed question here to avoid thread-jacking
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CAL001
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:47 am |
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Land Raider Helios (and Crusader for that matter)
No. I'd leave these to their own chapters (like BT for crusader). These again don't have models and I don't want to add too many units into the list.
Hena, what chaper are you refering to. I know the Red Scorpions are the creators of this vehicle, it also rates a mention in a Blood Ravens novel. IA 2 says it is uncommon, however the background we have on this vehicle has developed over the last twelve months. It is a simple conversion as described by E&C and by me in my conversion post earlier this year.
If the previous Marine Champion went MIA, when will a new one be appointed?
E&C, yes the AC is MIA and has been for a considerable time, I stuck my hand up and recieved no reply from SG. I spoke to Neal and he said that they had spoken to him with regard to my application. Neals advice to me was to continue to develop here and playtest the current list of changes. Hence my passion when it comes to marine changes.
In general, where items already appear in other lists, ie; LR Crusader, TH Annihilator, I think they are best left there. What I am lookig at is generic units for all marine chapters.
Multi-melta dread.
Possibly, possibly. Depends on the stats and can it keep the balance to current dreads
As far as stats go I was thinking along the same lines as the LS MW5+, 15cm, Small Arms. Each blister comes with the threee weapon variants, it seems a waste to leave them out when they are provided by SG.
Multi-melta & heavy flamer speeder.
Not really. The current multi-melta speeder is quite good enough as is
No thouhgt to stats as yet, maybe 30cm AP4+ Ignor Cover. Once again the blister has the Heavy Flamer? Extra Multi Melta? that can replace the Autocannon underneath. Why did they make the option if there was no intent to use it at some stage. Land Speeder Tsunami, to round out the theme. Maybe this could go over to the Salamanders list?
Cheers
CAL
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Steve54
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:10 am |
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Personally I would prefer to see any additional units added to variant lists ie. LR Crusader to BT , and leave the Codex Marines with their present units.
As for marine points changes/tweaks being already pretty much decided upon ?- I can't see how any changes can be properly tested and decided upon ?before the new air rules are finalised as these will greatly effect the list.
After the air rules are done then I would like to see reviews of the Codex list, and then the White Scar list preferably using the present units. Then once the base stats for marines have been sorted and problems addressed work can start on other chapters possibly incorporating vehicle variants.
Regarding the new units mentioned the only units that I believe are really necessary are the TH Transporter (there is a model after all) and the LR Helios as it seems any easy conversion and could be included in a variant list - Imperial Fists?
The scout bikes seem unecessary and unviable (scout bikes wihout SCOUT) whilst the dreads and LS don't seem particularily needed.
I totally agree that the Marines need a new ACs for both the codex and variant lists but I don't know who. This seems to be a common problem - perhaps the ERC could try to contact them, post here, the SG forum and wherever else and then replace any MIA AC who has not replied within 30 days.
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:10 am |
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I've volunteered for AC for DarkAngels and Salamanders but haven't recevied any answer yet.
The Multi-melta Dreadnought is already in my Salamanders Armylist, as well as Multi-melta AttackBike and Predator Destructor (Incinerator)with HeavyFlamer sponsons.
The Multi-melta + HeavyFlamer LandSpeeder is just the other variant of the LandSpeeder Tornado.
And if you include this variant you can also include the LandSpeeder with HeavyBolter instead of the Multi-melta as you can already build it(take the Tornado and just leave the AssaultCannon off).
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:43 pm |
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Multi-melta dread.
Possibly, possibly. Depends on the stats and can it keep the balance to current dreads
I've been using the Multi-Melta/Power Fist Dread in my games using the standard MM stats from the Land Speeder.
It does seem to have a valid niche of its own, especially in FireFights (Where it can use FF4+), but because of the slow base speed, and short range of the weapon, it is not overpowered.
For the record here's my current opinions:
Scout Bikers - Against.
Thunderhawk Transporter - For.
Land Raider Helios - For.
Dreadnought with Multi-Melta - For.
LandSpeeder variants - Against (3 variants is enough).
Land Raider Crusader - For.
ThunderHawk Bomber - Against.
PS: Heavy Flamers already have stats in Epic:A btw; AP4+ ignore cover, 15cm.
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Lord Inquisitor
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Post subject: SG Article Marine Units Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:09 pm |
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Like I said, a FOL article won't be official anyway, but just split the article:
"Serious options"
Thunderhawk Transporter
Land Raider Crusader
"For fun options"
LR variants (helios, promethius, possibly a Dread-transport LR?)
Further variants of existing vehicles (flamer speeder, melta dreadnought, damocles rhino)
Scout bikers
Techmarine/apothecaries.
Veterans
Note there is already a FOL article with scout bikers and veterans, both of which look alright to me, and some dubious Librarian rules which look broken.
I think the Crusader should be a serious option for core Codex chapters - it has long ago ceased to be a BT-specific vehicle, and the current C:SM has no restrictions on it. It should be a Codex vehicle, IMO, at least for "house rules".
Lord =I=
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