Tactical Command
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Stormbirds
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=7696		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Lion in the Stars [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
After reading the Heresy novels, I've been thinking about making a stormbird (Warhawk Mk7, IIRC), which is an even bigger Landing Craft. ?So far, no author has described the armament of a stormbird, but has instead mentioned that a stormbird can deploy an entire Company.

It'd look something like this (I more-or-less just doubled a Landing Craft):

WE, Bomber, 4+sv, 5+cc, 3+ff
4x Twin Lascannon: ?45cm AT4+
6x Twin Heavy Bolters: ?15cm AP4+/AA5+

DC8, Critical Hit: ?The stormbird's magazine explodes, destroying the stormbird and all onboard. ?Any units within 5cm suffer one hit

Notes: ?Planetfall, Reinforced Armor, Fearless, Transport (may carry twenty-four of the following units: ?Space Marine Tactical, Assault, Devastator, Scout, Bike, Terminator, or Dreadnought. ?Terminator or Dreadnoughts take up two spaces each. ?In addition, the Stormbird can carry 8 Land Raiders or 12 of the following: ?Rhino, Razorback, Hunter, Whirlwind, Predator, Whirlwind. ?OR, a stormbird can carry a mixed load of 4 Land Raiders AND 6 of the following: ?Rhino, Razorback, Hunter, Whirlwind, Predator, Whirlwind.)

The Critical needs some re-work, as I really don't want to lose a full company of Marines, plus their vehicles, and a 700-point transport craft, to a luck hit. ?That's too much of an 'all the eggs in one basket' issue. ?Problem is, the 'Bang, You're Dead!' crit is pretty well established for any flyer (Note: ?The Manta is NOT a flyer in this game).

What do y'all think? ?Should we continue this design, or should the stormbird wait for a Heresy-era game?
Author:  Steve54 [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
As, in the HH books,the stormbird is described as being a bit outdated and being phased out in most chapters for THawks I would say that it should wait for HH era lists/games but thats not to say it doesn't deserve  non tournament unit stats
Author:  CAL001 [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
If anything it belongs in the Chaos list. I have read the books to and have managed to find and old picture from th TL rules set with a large aircraft deploying massed assault marines. I think that the SB should only be able to carry infantry, as the books make no mention of any vehicles being transported. If you read the first book again it refers to underwing rocket pods and missiles being loaded and the thing bristled with weapons.

Cheers
CAL

On a side not each time I buy something from FW I put the stormbird in as my 'wish you would make it vehicle'. Start asking guys, it wierd enough that they may just make it.
Author:  ragnarok [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
I'm pretty sure that stormbirds can't carry that mnay more men than a thunderhawk.

In the assault on the wispherheads I'm sure that they used 6 stormbirds to deploy 200 men (or was it 12 SB and 300 men?).

I think that the bigger SB just carries more guns and has a nicer profile than the thunderhawk.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
Although I don't have a copy of the HH books to hand, I seem to recall that Stormbirds seemed smaller than Landing Craft, or at least that was my impression.
Author:  Lion in the Stars [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:17 am ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
I'll need to dig out my copy of the first Heresy novel to double-check, but I got the distinct impression that a Stormbird carried a full company and was significantly larger than a THawk, hence the stats I proposed.  I'm OK with adding a stormbird to the Chaos list (after all, I use the Chaos lists to represent pre-heresy forces), but I could also see the Dark Angels deploying them (Ironwing needs some way to get on-planet, after all).  It would be significantly easier to include with the Chaos lists, though.

I don't remember reading any mention of vehicles until Istvaan 3, but that doesn't mean that stormbirds can't carry vehicles, just that they didn't in the assault on the Whisperheads, or going planetside on Davin.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, after all.  If it's a Chaos unit, how do Chaos Marine vehicles get to the ground if not in a stormbird (unless I missed the CSM Landing Craft)?  That would make it an excellent candidate for inclusion in a CSM list, as it would fill a current gap in the list.  Just because they turned to Chaos, doesn't take any of their training, skills, or experience away from them.  Or their tactical inclinations (orbital assault, anyone?).
Author:  frogbear [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
Just reading the latest Dark Angels book in the Heresy series and the stormbird is quite prevalent.

I was wondering whether it was worth re-igniting this little thread to perhaps gain these as an option to either official or home rules chaos or pre-heresy lists.

Thoughts?
Author:  The Red Sorcerer [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
There was some discussion about Heresy-era Marine lists a while back. Daemonkin cobbled together a rough draft for a list, with the Stormbird stats as follows, based closely on the descriptions and armament in the novels:

Type: WE/AC
Speed: Bomber
Armour: 4+
CC: 5+
FF: 3+
Weapons:
2 x Assault Cannons: AP5+,AT5+,AA5+
2 x Underwing Battlecannons: AP4+,AT4+ FxF
2 x Underwing Rockets: AT4+ FxF
1 x Nose Autocannons AP5+, AA5+ FxF
Notes: DC 4, Planetfall, Reinforced Armour, Fearless, Transport
Critical Hit Effect: The Stormbird’s magazine explodes, destroying the Stormbird and anybody on board. Any units within 5cms of the Stormbird suffer one hit.
Transport: May carry 12 of the following units: Space Marine Tactical, Assault, Devastator, Scout, Bike, Terminator or Dreadnought units. Terminators and Dreadnoughts take up two spaces each.
There was also a recent discussion about what they might look like here:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/ ... =7;t=15579
Author:  Legion 4 [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
So where's the model ??!  :rock:
Author:  British [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
I'd call it smaller than a Colossus Lander so less DC
Author:  CAL001 [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
I like the second set of stats, it feels about right for capacity for the transport component. What I would say is the weapon loadout is orientated more towards AT fire than AP fire. A drop ship focused on the assualt should be orientated towards AP fire. I was thinking along the following lines with weapons.

2 x Heavy Bolters           30cm   AP4+/AA5+ Nose mounted
2 x Assault Cannons         30cm   AP5/AT5/AA5 Wing mounted FF
4 x Hellstrike Missiles     120cm  AT2(One Shot)FF
2 x Rocket Pods             30cm   1BP (Disrupt)FF
Twinlinked Assault Cannon   30cm   AP5/AT5/AA5 Rear Facing Tail Weapon

My thoughts, comments?

Cheers
Aaron
Author:  frogbear [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
Wow

That is alot of firepower, more so that the current Thunderhawk Gunship.

I thought these things would be ok but not better. I guess they move like sloths though when flying (being bomber in movement).

Such a flyer would definitely change the structure of lists if they were included.

Is it so important to keep the guns that it may have rather than go for a toned down version as a representation of firepower?

Just my thoughts....
Author:  zombocom [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:10 am ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
That's definately way, way too much firepower.
Author:  The Red Sorcerer [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
zombo: Which set of stats? Or all of them?

Here is some useful info on the Stormbird gathered from the novels:
http://z15.invisionfree.com/The_Great_C ... wtopic=816

As far as weaponry goes, it is described as having 'underwing cannons', an array of cannons mounted underneath the cockpit, 'rotary cannons in forward pintle mounts', and can carry racks of missiles or bombs under the wings.

From the descriptions the nose cannons certainly appear to be autocannons or something similar, and the 'rotary cannons' certainly sound like assault cannons. There is plenty of leeway for the nature of the missiles/bombs and cannons under the wings, so they can be pretty freely adjusted to balance the firepower.

As far as capacity, they carry at least 50 marines, probably more - the Stormbird is regularly described as being substantially larger than the Thunderhawk, probably at least 1 1/2 - 2 times the size going by the descriptions.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Stormbirds
Quote: (Legion 4 @ 14 Jul. 2009, 15:38 )

So where's the model ??!  :rock:

Again ... isn't someone working on a model of this ... Or is that classifed ?  :rock:
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