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Marine Armoured variant list v0.3

 Post subject: Marine Armoured variant list v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:42 am 
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I like the concept. I?d make a few alterations (there?s a surprise) to further bring out the character.
Supreme commander ? drop it. Keep the ?raider version. An infantry supreme commander seems an anachronism for such a chapter!
Prometheus itself ? It?s a bit overdone? How is this almost three times as good as a regular land raider in a firefight with other tanks. It?s a command tank, not an assault tank. Suggest what stats below.
Devastators ? Armour is about mobility, protection and?. Firepower! Having infantry based firepower seems a bit strange. I would recommend just having Tacticals ? essentially the structure would be veteran company, scout company, then ?tactical reserve? companies. They provide vehicle crews and infantry support.
Urban fighting ? you do need an infantry formation for this, I have an idea. Small (4 stands) tactical formation. Provides the core, stuff like vindicators would support them as a separate formation.
Formation size. Ever wondered why tank formations are 4 strong? 3 strong ATSKNF formations are disproportionately hard to break to their effectiveness (the loss of one unit doesn?t stop them). Personally I wonder how a list made of 13 formations of armour with some terminators would handle.
Formation types ? try the ?fast attack? or ?armour? approach.
Air transport ? A formation can?t have aircraft as an upgrade (unless it is going to be very static after landing). Equally a formation must have the capacity to transport the intended ? suggest you make a formation of variable size. Plus if you keep special rule the transporter becomes a way to push up activations and throws up loads of rule questions.
Spaceships ? With no drop pods I suggest dropping the cost.
Transporter ? Change stats to 2 rhinos + variants or 1 land Raider AND 2 infantry units or 1 terminator unit (written better of course). Also it doesn?t look as sturdy as the thunderhawk ? less armour, price reduction etc, effects below.
Infantry upgrades ? you can build quite large formations. ATSKNF means they can be a nightmare to deal with. I suggest a slight points increase ? but not to the infantry, make rhinos 25 points. This will also encourage the use of razorbacks which seem fitting for this list!
Also as its armour why not use the hunter formation?
Helios wise I think it shouldn?t be as FFy as a regular raider, its lost its Heavy bolters after all.
Finally the techmarine would be a neat addition ? how about invulnerable save, multi melta, leader.
No thoughts on bomber would have to gather brain.

Also how about putting scouts on bikes? No idea this late on how to do that.

All that would mean??

New units

Land Raider Prometheus
Armoured Vehicle
Move, 25cm
Save, 4+
CC, 6+
FF, 4+
4 x Twin Heavy Bolters, 30cm, AP4+
Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Invulnerable Save, Supreme Commander, Transport (may carry one Terminator unit OR two of the following units: Space Marine Tactical, Devastator & Scout units).

Land Raider Helios
Armoured Vehicle
Move, 25cm
Save, 4+
CC, 6+
FF, 5+
2 x Twin Lascannon, 45cm, AT4+
Whirlwind, 45cm, 1BP, Indirect Fire
Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Transport (may carry one of the following units: Space Marine Tactical, Devastator & Scout units).

Thunderhawk Transporter
WE
Save, 5+
CC, 6+
FF, 5+
Twin Heavy Bolter, 15cm, AP4+/AA5+, Left Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter, 15cm, AP4+/AA5+, Right Arc
Notes: DC2 (critical=dead), Planetfall, Reinforced Armour, Transport (may carry two rhinos (any variant) OR one land raider (any variant) AND two of the following units: Space Marine Tactical, Assault, Devastator, Scout, Bike, Terminator or Dreadnought units. Terminators and Dreadnoughts take up two spaces each).

Techmarine
Character
Multi Melta, 15cm, MW5+
And
Small arms (MW)
Notes: Invulnerable save, Leader, the Multi-melta can shoot and be used to confer the macro-weapon ability to the unit?s firefight value.

Detachment
Outriders - Five outrider units (may choose either Land Speeders or Bikes or a combination of the two) - Commander, Attack Bike, Typhoon, Tornado - 200 points
Land Raider - Four Land Raiders - Commander, Helios, Hunter, Tacticals, Land Raiders, Prometheus - 375 points
Landing Craft - 350 points
Armour ? Four armour units (may choose Annihilators, Destructors, Vindicators or any combination thereof) ? Armour, Hunter, Commander, Tacticals - 275 points
Support - Four Whirlwinds or Hunters or a combination of the two ? Commander - 300 points
Strike Cruiser - Battle Barge - 150 points
Infantry ? Four Tactical units ? Commander ? 175 points
Scout - Four Scout units ? Commander, Sniper - 125 points
Terminator Four Terminator units Commander, Land Raiders 350 points
Bomber - ? points
Transporter ? one to four transporters - 125 points each

Upgrades
Armour - Add up two of the following; Annihilator, Destructor, Vindicator - 75 points each
Attack Bikes - Replace any number of outrider units with 1 Attack Bike each - Free
Tornado - Replace any number of outrider units with one Tornado each ? 10 points each
Typhoon - Replace any number of outrider units with one Typhoon each ? 25 points each
Battle Barge - Replace Strike Cruiser with Battle Barge - 100 points
Commander - Add one Space Marine Commander, a Captain, Librarian, Chaplain or Techmarine - 50 points
Helios - Replace up to four Land Raiders with Land Raider Helios - 50 points each
Hunter - 75 points
Infantry ? one to four tactical units - 50 points each
Land Raiders - Add one to four Land Raiders - 75 points each
0-1 Prometheus ? upgrade one Land Raider to a Prometheus - 75 points
Sniper - All Scouts gain the weapon ability sniper - 75 points

Transport
All infantry must be transported in vehicles. Any infantry not transported after upgrades must buy enough Rhinos and/or Razorbacks to transport remainder ? 25 points each

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 Post subject: Marine Armoured variant list v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:57 am 
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(Hena @ Mar. 05 2007,08:27)
QUOTE

I have a hesitant feel on forcing marine player to use only one type of supreme commander. And pure rhino (damocles) would be too "soft" as an alternative. It has the +1EA mainly as all character seem to have some extra. I'm not sure that it's too much since the cost is rather high possibly (for having only 30cm range weapons).


Well it means it is as nifty as a crusader assault wise really. The 4 30cm shots are fine for shredding infantry. The character thing for a tank would I think be a bit different than for the regular 'infantry' centric chap.
Agree damocles bit soft.
And... the current marine list only allows one type of Supreme comander :)

Possibly. I didn't want to remove infantry completely as they are Marines in the end :). But I pushed them into upgrades to prevent full infantry army. Perhaps do same to scouts as well?

Well you still have tacs, and thse guys supposedly double as vehicle crew. Plus think of the list as one for those people with lots of tactical marines, rhinos and land raiders :)

Vindicator formation is for this. That and infantry upgrade to it should be effective at clearng urban areas. Same goes for Terminators. And possibly scouts at the moment (although moving them to upgrade/bikes would of course remove them from this list).

Terminators are ultimately used against high value targets, scouts are somewhat fragile and vindies are support not the main thrust surely?

Formation types - try the 'fast attack' or 'armour' approach.
Umm... not with you here.

You will see in the list.

See thread for complete questions on why it's written as it is.

Read other two lists, can't see much discussion on its armour and stuff. And the transport thing is a way of writing it, not a description of its use. Besides the damn thing only exists as FW don't have landing craft which blow it out the water rational wise.

It's just that Razorbacks enlarge the size of formations in general. Perhaps make the tacs 1 or 2 pairs as well? This would cut the largest group by potential 4 units.

Well you can at least insure no-one goes from the extr transport capacity thing.

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 Post subject: Marine Armoured variant list v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:05 am 
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Oh i see it, posted a comment there.

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 Post subject: Marine Armoured variant list v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:37 pm 
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I think cost wise you should aim at two for less than landing craft, 3 for more. Landing craft proposed cost is 375, which makes it tricky. Thats based just on 2dc and 5+RA. The targeting rules mean you can spread hits around so even two might be tougher than a lander in the air of course, with less vulnerability to criticals.

How about 2 for 300, and up to 2 extra for 100 each?
Or 2 for 275 and up to 2 extra for 125/100 each?
Or whatever, but you see what I'm getting at :)
You don't need to remove scouts for this - you just won't have a transport formation tailored for them!

Infantry - wheres L4? :) I don't think a tank based force with some infatry support can handle an urban area - witness Baghdad. Infantry with tank support on other hand different kettle of fish.

Prom - Yeah - but I would have it as an upgrade rather than additional unit.
You may think the stats are fine in comparison to having no crusaders - but really its just way off compared to a standard 'raider. What makes it so much better at assaults? The fact its packed with C&C gear?

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 Post subject: Marine Armoured variant list v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:02 pm 
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Heres the link to last page of the scout bike discussion.  

It was a long discussion to get to basically the same stats as were in fanatic online

I think that out of all the discussion the weaker, screening option (IE the FO online article) was the best set of stats as an independent formation of say 5 for 175.

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 Post subject: Marine Armoured variant list v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:06 pm 
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Yes you could have it like the avatar. I would still keep it as FF4+ for the tank - 4 lascannon two heavy bolter similar firepower to 8 heavy bolter against the mix of tabks and infantry you face in game.

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