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Codex Marines - the big discussion

 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:19 am 
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Correct Mard, but even so, it can give the Marine player an edge where he faces one of the more 'one-dimensional' lists eg 'Nids . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:30 am 
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Jimmy, if you look at each player on the E-UK site, you get a breakdown of the armies played and their statistics.

In the case of Richard you get these stats where the stats you need are on the right.
However it is less easy to determine which list he used against any given player (listed on the left hand side).

Overall this represents some 160 games with 99 wins, 31 losses and 30 draws


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:35 am 
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oh i know it's there. I want you to do the work because... reasons ;D
that and I am on phone so you know...excel not so fun

Mard, that's the colloquial term for that adoption (where in EUK it actually had that name at one time IIRC). For instance, you don't need to see the list composition to know when you're going to play v Necrons that the "hot macro AA death abounds" and orks come with the flying circus etc. In a skilled player that's a huge boon.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:39 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Can we group that set by player(winner) and percentage of total total wins? It would be interesting if RichardL is skewing results ;)


the top 3 UK codex marine players are Yme-Loc (18 wins) Steve54 (24 wins) and dptdexys (46 wins) they have a total of 88 wins between them out of a total of 264 for the list to date, so they account for a full third of all of the wins that the codex marine list has, to date there have been 36 different players who have used codex marines in at least one tournament

I think really this reinforces the point Onyx made earlier, great players win games

also let's think about it, if guys can win 65% of their games and draw another 20% or so with the list, it's difficult to call it underpowered IMO

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:33 pm 
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And Matt Otter had 14, Richard Laking 16 wins respectively.

I might add that since the UK tournaments are fought under a Swiss system, these wins are more often than not against people of equal abilities, often against each other.

Unfortunately, I don't think it will be at all easy to establish the armies that they beat, or to remove their results from the statistics to establish the abilities of "average Joe".


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:22 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:

I think really this reinforces the point Onyx made earlier, great players win games

also let's think about it, if guys can win 65% of their games and draw another 20% or so with the list, it's difficult to call it underpowered IMO


Can anyone look at the same stats for orks? Their raw data looks really bad but I wonder if that's skewed. I've never met anyone who does well with Orks!


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:01 pm 
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With ghazgkull orks, yme-loc is the UK's premier player with 55% wins and 25% draws

I do feel the UK ghazgkull ork stats suffer from the fact that Steve54, dptdexys and RichardL have not used orks at a tournament, and Tiny-Tim has mostly used (and been very successful with) Ferals and Speed freaks

/offtopic ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:34 am 
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I'm very curious. Do EUK tournies allow lists posted before the tourney so you know exactly what you're facing well in advance of the actual tourney?

Do they keep dossiers of stats etc of opposition army lists and units in posted upcoming tourney lists so they know what's a threat, what range it has etc so it can be eliminated early in game?

This does occur in Australia's tourney scene.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:43 am 
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Yes it's common for a few players to post their lists in advance but the TO doesn't do it. The TO does normally post the breakdown of armies once they are submitted (2 codex, 1 biel tan, 1 dark elder etc).

Not sure what you mean about a dossier, but everyone has to bring a copy of their list for their opponents. If you mean do players keep notes based on what has been posted, I doubt it, the best players don't really need to do that anyway, they play enough games to know all the armies anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:21 am 
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Dobbsy wrote:
I'm very curious. Do EUK tournies allow lists posted before the tourney so you know exactly what you're facing well in advance of the actual tourney?

Do they keep dossiers of stats etc of opposition army lists and units in posted upcoming tourney lists so they know what's a threat, what range it has etc so it can be eliminated early in game?

This does occur in Australia's tourney scene.

No rules against posting up lists but the TO doesn't generally post up lists.
As TO I make sure I've got a copy of the list and armylist of every army at the tournament. The players have to bring a copy of their list and the armylist it is from too. Part of the warm up the players have to explain their armtlist to their opponents - not their tactical plan buy what stats units have, what rules they have etc.

Anything is down to players to read up on tactics and lists themselves

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:25 pm 
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So in UK tournaments there is practically no scope to pre-plan based on your opponent's actual list. Our club league is the opposite: we know weeks or months in advance the exact lists we'll be facing, allowing people like me to waste many hours pondering plans and strategies only to see them fail at first contact :)

Edit: I can imagine if I was a TO for a friendly tournament and there was a mix of beginners and veterans using unusual lists or units, I might give the noobs a "dossier" of things to watch out for.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:27 pm 
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I distinctly remember when attending my first tournaments (and still now to an extent) feeling at a massive disadvantage because I had absolutely no clue what anything was or did in most of the armies I faced. Playing all the variants of chaos i might as well have just conceded and gone to the pub. So I actually think something like that would be a great idea. But then, that's easy for me to say when it's not me who does the work and with the number of tournaments the EUK folks run, I think they do enough as it is...

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:09 pm 
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I always compile a small DIN A5 booklet with all army lists, record sheet, timetable and tourney "special rules" for every player. Each one gets them as its not unusual to get lists approved by the TO beforehand to get bugs or mistakes out of the armylists they want to play. Each player gets a pdf one week prior to the tourney and thats earliest I check lists as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:57 am 
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As most of the Aussie Tourney continue to grow in numbers with new players (Think we're planning on 35ish for Castle Assualt this year) we tend to release all of the army lists a week or two before hand - but without the players names attached.

So you can see what Space Marine 1 is fielding, Space marine 2 etc

This lets our new players look up what certain units do/combinations so they can be prepared for the day. It also generates a lot of pre-game banter and discussion of tactics, speculation on who's armies is who's and general good Aussie natured slagging each other off.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 5:12 pm 
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Hi all,

I'm one of the terribad SM players who try and kill things instead of win the game - though at least now I know that I can make a change :)

Shadowlord is in my state and got me into the game (through 3plusplus) so I guess he is a bad influence on me; I sucked all of the EpicUK lists into excel and then did some analysis of the "best" (wins 75%+ of games) lists and this gave me a very consistent archetype:

1 x Terminators (add Chaplain or Librarian)
2 x Scouts (often + LC RB)
1 x Tactical + SC + Hunter (optionally + RB) BTS
1 x Devastators
2 x Warhound singles
1 x Thunderbolts
1 x Speeders
2 x Thunderhawks

That is 2725 of your 3000 points already spent

Only 40% of lists brought a spacecraft (1/3 SC, 1/30 a BB)

I've only used this archetype for one game so far, but it was like breathing fresh air. When you lay this on the table you *know* you cannot fight a slugfest, you *have* to throw scouts up to be annoying and hidden, etc etc. It made our game a lot more fun and tactical.

I just wish it looked more like a company.


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