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Dark Angels v1.2 The long slog to NetEA

 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.1 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:47 am 
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Regarding the restrictive build of the list I'd say that was definitely the way to go to avoid it being a Codex+Extras list. My only reservation would be tieing all aircraft to the ravenwing formation as this really forces you to build around the RW.

Exectutioner Preds look a bit cheap at 25 for 2

In the discussions over the relative power of the Codex SM list and air assaults/teleport could one of the group give a rundown on how the Australian meta counters them as its not something that anywhere else has managed.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.1 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:34 am 
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Steve54 wrote:
Regarding the restrictive build of the list I'd say that was definitely the way to go to avoid it being a Codex+Extras list. My only reservation would be tieing all aircraft to the ravenwing formation as this really forces you to build around the RW.



We can look at moving aircraft to separate section, but then I'm worried about people loading up with a possible 33% or something on aircraft.
My immediate thoughts is just to increase the Ravenwing unlock to allow 2 Ravenwing support choices instead of 1.
Steve54 wrote:
Exectutioner Preds look a bit cheap at 25 for 2

Possibly, but let'd just start here and with testing see if they need a bump

Steve54 wrote:
In the discussions over the relative power of the Codex SM list and air assaults/teleport could one of the group give a rundown on how the Australian meta counters them as its not something that anywhere else has managed.


I'm not going to respond to this here as I'm going to make an effort to not de-rail my thread into differences between different countries metas :)
Start a new thread with the question and I'm sure a discussion can be had there


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.1 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:35 am 
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Steve54 wrote:
In the discussions over the relative power of the Codex SM list and air assaults/teleport could one of the group give a rundown on how the Australian meta counters them as its not something that anywhere else has managed.


I'd suggest talking to Matt shadowlord. His skill as a player is unquestionable and he took a wolf list to Cancon that was the definition of air assault with double landers. Despite that he took a narrow loss to squats and a mauling from a 14 activation Eldar army whose only loss was to the squats.

My take on his results was that he essentially decimated the players who weren't prepared but really struggled agin at both the squats and eldar because they both had AA coverage for the entire board and enough activations to limit the impact of an alpha strike.

I don't think he did report after the event though


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.1 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 1:04 am 
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I'll have a new version up this week and will be playing the first batrep on the weekend


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.1 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Hows things coming along?

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.1 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:43 am 
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Pretty good actually

I have an update I have to release, just some typos and formatting really.

We have an approved only tournament in 3 weeks that I'm prepping for - after that it'll be DA testing all the way. Plenty of people in club are lined up and happy to playtest the list


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.1 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:57 pm 
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Been slowly working on a Deathwing force. Haven't had the chance to field them yet but I'm just curious if anyone else has tried it with the latest version. Rather dismayed by the lack of options when only using deathwing. Seems that the list organization kinda forces players away from specializing and requires a mix of wings to get access to some of the better stuff.
Was hoping to avoid using Ravenwing and Ironwood but playing pure deathwing would make for quite the boring build.
The CC terminators don't seem all that ballanced of an exchange.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.1 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:00 am 
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Hi Atension

The design philosophy for the list was to create a different feel from the normal Marine lists with the DA forces all working together to bring down the fallen.

On another note the list was structured that way to force players to build a bit of everything instead of just loading up with the good stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.2 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:13 am 
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Newest version is now up on main page

Changelog 1.1 - 1.2
*Tidied up formatting
*Removed Battle Barge
*Renamed Strike cruiser to "Dark Angels Strike Cruiser" removed plantefall options in Spacecraft
*Limited LR Achillies to 0-2 upgrade option in formation to keep in line with IH list
*"This replaces the Blitz victory condition for the Dark Angel player" now changed to "This replaces the Blitzkrieg victory condition for the Dark Angel player
*"Deathwing Tactics" upgrade Changed to "Deathwing Knights"
* Deathwing Tactics added: Increase formation to 6 for 175 points
* Dark Talon: Stasis Bomp changed to 2BP IC (Similar to Chaos Bomber)
* Ravenwing Black Knight upgrade: now 25pts for 2, 3+ CC FS, 3+ FF

I'm hoping to get my first tests of this list soon


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.2 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:31 pm 
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Cool looking forward to some builds and reports. Small typo is that the Core Detachment section has the section title of "Dark Angel Line Companies"

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.2 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:13 am 
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Cheers Jimmy, I'll get that sorted now for the next release. I also noted that the Hunter cost upgrade was missing, so that'll be back in at the normal 75 points next release.

I'm planning to run this list first to try out some of the new toys, may play with costs of units etc after the game. But I just want to get a feel for how it runs as is first

Deathwing 350 [400]
2x Normal Terminators
2x Deathwing Knights
Chaplain 50

Tactical 275 [425]
Supreme Commander 100
Mortiss Dreadnought 50

Thunderhawk [200]

Ravenwing [250]
5 bikes
Chaplain

Land Speeders [275]
3x Normal Landspeeders
2x Vengeance 25
1x Darkshroud

Ravenwing [200]
5 bikes

Dark Talon Jetfighters [250]

Ironwing 250 [325]
4x predator Annihilators
Hunter 75

Glaive [325]

Ravenwing [200]
5 bikes

Scouts [150]


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.2 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:05 am 
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After a few games with this DA list I figured I'd post a few comments.

First of all, we mostly play scenarios, and not the tournament one. Most fights are not really that fair, so I won't really take a stand balance-wise.

The list plays interestingly, personal favourite new unit is Land Speeder Darkshrounds, kind of like having fast moving infantry without transports that works like infantry with transports, but without the hassle of hopping in and out between every move.

As far as list building goes, the Deathwing, Ravenwing, Ironwing split is a bit restrictive. There's really a single unit you have to take in order to get any one of the more interesting units - for example if you'd like to get a Vindicator detachment and a Whirlwind detachment, you have to have _two_ Predator detachments. If you want to add a Relic, you have to have _three_ Predator detachments. For every land speeder or flyer detachment you have to have a bike detachment.

Perhaps the restriction to additional units of the wing-type could be something like 2 support detachments of that particular type - up to one of which may be replaced by a line company detachment?

There are a few units that seem to be a bit off in the current revision of the list - I really don't see a reason why ravenwing knights would get FS. In my opinion the higher firefight value was already enough.

Also, the Land Raider Crusader is not using the profile that's in the approved lists - this gets a bit confusing since you have to remember different statlines for the same unit:

Quote:
Land Raider Crusader AV 25cm 4+ 5+ 5+
2× Hurricane Bolters (15cm) Small Arms EA(+1)
Twin Assault Cannon 30cm AP4+/AT4+
Reinforced Armour Thick Rear Armour Transport May transport three infantry units without Jump Packs or Mounted; Terminator units count as one and a half units each, rounding up. Counts as a Land Raider for the purposes of being transported.


..edit: same also applies to Hunter at least. Also lasc sponson predators have the wrong attack type for the sponsons

I also kind of liked that the DA previously only got ground-based AA in Dreadnoughts. Yes, it did perform quite poorly due to the really slow movement that Dreadnoughts suffer from, and due to that their inability to actually follow fast moving formations with their AA bubble. That did kind of give DA a unique weakness - a vulnerability to aerial units.

Here's a picture of about half of the Dark Angels I've painted so far to match this current revision of the list. This particular list got totally fkin murdered by a Minervan Tank Legion list with about 1k more points. The point of the scenario was to survive for a number of turns - due to some horrible dice rolling and infantry starting inside the transports for "fluff" reasons that didn't happen. Keeping infantry inside transports is total murder in EA.

Image


Last edited by warhamster on Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.2 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:49 am 
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Oh, nice army!

Are the deads Shapeway prints? I've not seen them before.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.2 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:56 am 
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Quote:
Are the deads Shapeway prints? I've not seen them before.


The weapons are. The torsos are regular GW ones.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/56NLY ... d=59969482

The weapons are slightly too large for the GW torsos, but still manageable.

More pictures at https://www.flickr.com/gp/135733363@N02/v95530 where you should be able to see the size disparity more clearly.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels v1.2 The long slog to NetEA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:24 pm 
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Probable typos:

- Company Master doesn't have Leader
- Grand Master does have Leader but doesn't need it, because it's included in Supreme Commander
- Under Ironwing Line Company "For every Ravenwing detachment taken you may take one Ironwing Support and one Line Company detachment"
- Scouts have Sniper listed in the Stats document, but in the main list it's an optional upgrade
- Land Speeder Darkshroud, Stats document: "...within it's zone of control." "It's" should be "its"
- The Assault Cannons on the Land Speeder Vengeance, Darkshroud, and Land Raider Crusader all have a range of 45cm but the Assault Cannon is a 30cm weapon (see: Land Raider Crusader in other lists, Terminators, Dreadnought)
- Land Raider Crusader has 2 entries in the Stats document, and its Hurricane Bolters should be Small Arms, EA(+1), instead of AP4+ as currently listed
- Lascannons on the Predator Annihilator and Executioner are listed as AP rather than AT
- Land Raider Achilles Twin Multi-meltas should be MW4+ rather than MW5+
- In the army list the Dreadnought upgrade reads "Add up to 2 Dreadnoughts or Mortis Dreadnoughts," but it should read "Add up to 2 Executioner Dreadnoughts or Mortis Dreadnoughts"
- The Ravenwing special rule that specifies that Land Speeders have Scout is redundant. They already all have Scout in every Marine list.

Couple of questions/points
- Is the Strike Cruiser supposed to have a barrage the size of a Battle Barge's?
- Since the characters are all identical to their Codex Marines counterparts it's probably easier to just call them the same thing for clarity/simplicity's sake, even though the DA have slightly different names for them
- If you take Deathwing Tactics to get a formation of 6 Terminators and want them in Land Raiders you have to use Crusaders currently. Should there be an option to take up to 6 normal Land Raiders with the Terminators, or is that edging too far into deathstar territory?
- Are the Ravenwing Black Knights supposed to still have Scout, or is that a holdover from when all the bikes had it?


Last edited by NoisyAssassin on Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:24 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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