Tactical Command
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Amendments to the Codex list
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=28653		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dobbsy [ Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Amendments to the Codex list
I've presented the following amendments to the NetERC and they have approved them so will take immediate effect within the list.

I know some may feel these didn't perhaps go far enough and others will feel perhaps weren't necessary at all but I feel I took the median path, deciding on small steps (IMO) this time around as I'm still mulling over much of the ideas and discussions in this thread. I do, however, plan to release an experimental/developmental list with some things for possible future inclusions that I would like to see trialled to see how they effect the list.



Anyway, here are the new changes:

Amendment of the Space Marine Transports rule to the following:

SPECIAL RULE
6.3.1 Space Marine Transports
The Space Marines are a highly mobile army. Because of this, the points cost of a detachment usually includes enough Rhino transport vehicles to transport it and any upgrades that have been taken. Determine the number of Rhinos needed after all upgrades have been purchased. The number of Rhinos will always be the minimum needed to carry the formation, you can’t take extras along to cover any losses!

Note that many formations don’t receive Rhinos, usually because they can’t fit into them. Detachments that come with Rhinos will be noted as having ‘plus transport’ in the units section of the army list opposite.
Also note that you don’t have to take Rhinos if you don’t want to. If you’d rather field the formation on foot instead, so it can act as a garrison for example, or be transported in a Thunderhawk Gunship, then you may do so.

In addition, you may choose to replace a detachment’s Rhinos with Drop Pods. If you do this then the detachment will enter play in a Drop Pod using the rules for planetfall (see section 4.4). Note that if you choose to do this you will also require at least one Space Marine Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge to deploy the drop pods from.

Before each tournament game, after the opposing army is known but before objectives are placed, the Space Marine player may choose which formations with the ‘plus transport’ aspect are deployed in Rhinos, Drop Pods or on foot. If the formation has any units unable to deploy in Drop Pods then that option cannot be selected.

To work out a formation’s transport
• Add any infantry upgrades to the formation.
• Add Land Raiders to the formation.
• Add Razorbacks to the formation, up to the number of Infantry units not transportable by Land Raiders.
• If there are still infantry units in the formation without transport add the minimum number of Rhinos required for all units in the formation to be transported.


I have added the Superior tactics wording to the SMT rule to avoid adding a new rule as it goes directly to the SMT rule itself. Given the widespread use of the Superior Tactics rule in the EUK list I believe this change to be fairly straight forward.

Amendment of the Sniper upgrade to:
Give all Scout units the Snipers ability +50 points

Amendment of the Typhoons upgrade to:
Replace any number of Land Speeders with an equal number of
Land Speeder Typhoons
Add up to 2 +25points
Add 3 to 5 +50 points

Cheers all.
Author:  mordoten [ Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
Good work!
Author:  Ginger [ Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
Yup - Thanks for this, and especially for including the 'superior tactics' rule in the SM Transport, absolutely the right place to put it.
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
Exalt+1
Author:  osoi [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
Great changes
Author:  Koshi [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
Very good work indeed!
Author:  ortron [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
Quote:
Before each tournament game, after the opposing army is known but before objectives are placed, the Space Marine player may choose which formations with the ‘plus transport’ aspect are deployed in Rhinos, Drop Pods or on foot. If the formation has any units unable to deploy in Drop Pods then that option cannot be selected.


To confirm, does "then that option cannot be taken" refer to the selection of drop pods, or the unit(s) that cannot be drop podded. Is it similar to a formation that chooses to teleport but contains units without teleport? according to the 2014 FAQ, the non-teleporting units are lost.

So back to the marines, for example I have tacticals with 1 hunter and 1 dreadnought as upgrades. Clearly I can deploy them on the ground in rhinos + upgrades. I can now also:
A. Elect to deploy on foot, loosing all rhinos (but able to make uses of garrison due to only 1 unit with speed 15cm+)?
B. Elect to drop pod the formation, provided I have a space craft, but lose the Hunter (no BM taken) as it cannot drop pod ?
C. Deploy "on foot" but also dump the hunter before the start of the game to deploy in a Thunderhawk?

I presume A: Yes, B: Yes, C:No
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
You don't have to deploy or use any model in your army list. You just never get them out of the box/bring them along. This was established long ago to cover people who didn't have enough models for, say, every boyz units in your orc mob or who wanted to garrisson a formation. The fact you dont have all the models you are entitled to is seen as bad enough...
Author:  kyussinchains [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
The_Real_Chris wrote:
You don't have to deploy or use any model in your army list. You just never get them out of the box/bring them along. This was established long ago to cover people who didn't have enough models for, say, every boyz units in your orc mob or who wanted to garrisson a formation. The fact you dont have all the models you are entitled to is seen as bad enough...


actually no, the formation sizes are set for a reason, we had this discussion a while ago because you can voluntarily drop units to gain the ability to garrison, or can fit guardians+wraithguard in a vampire... or have to buy less transports for a formation... etc etc

I'm not trying to be an arse, in a friendly game I'd let you do it but insist on the unit starting with blast markers for the discarded models, in a tournament I just wouldn't permit it, the lists are not designed that way and unfortunately if you don't have the models or a suitable proxy, then you shouldn't be entering a tournament with that army

the marines are a specific example where you can drop units to garrison, if they require a special rule to do so, then nobody else is permitted
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
Sure that used to be in the FAQ - isn't there now. Neither of course is the requirement that you have to field units you have paid for. Only reference to deployment I can see is
Do all Fortified Positions purchased need to be set up?
No.

Oh this is in the EpicUK FAQ

Q: How and when are Space Marine transport options selected?
A: Choosing transport options is part of the army selection process. Portions of a formation may be left behind during
deployment (to garrison, for example) the decision to exchange options, even “free” ones, must be made when the army list is determined.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
this came up a while ago, while I'd have no problem playing a friendly game against someone who genuinely was a model short here and there, but leaving units behind opens up the possibility of gamey situations.... certain formations are intentionally designed to be a certain size so they can't fit into air transports, or require a certain number of transport vehicles purchasing

if this is the case already, there would be no requirement for marines to have a special rule expressly permitting them to do it....

also of course there is no rule saying you HAVE to use all the models in a unit, that kind of thing is implied by common sense, when I bought my blue-ray player, it didn't say in the manual to first submerge it in a bath of salty water before using it, but I'm sure glad I did, the electrical fizzing noises and periodic showers of sparks really enhance my movie watching experience... ;)
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
It would be common sense to not take a damaging action, however it would also be common sense to take an advantagious action...
Author:  Ginger [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
To the specific question the options relate to the addition of Rhinos or Pods at this point.

The question of allowing people to drop units that they have paid for is a different debate.
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
props for sensible implementation of small changes into one of the most popular/core lists!
Author:  JuronValor [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amendments to the Codex list
Excellent changes!
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