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| Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=28497 |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
I've been thinking about doing a Space Wolves Drop list army for Ragnar Blackmane's Great Company for a long while now - roughly since I wrote the Iron Wolves list (Egil Ironwolf's GC) and hoped to include it in the Epic:Nemesis supplement I'm working on. I put it aside however because I couldn't seem to fathom how to make a list utilise drop pods/planet fall over an entire game and make it interesting and make it a more fair design than a load of Deathwind Launchers each turn etc. Also, particularly as the Raven Guard (drop list poster boys) list is available to use. I know all Marine lists can do the drop list but my theory was you would get to drop your army a bit each turn rather than all at once. This would have restrictions to the usual 20 unit drop. I've brainstormed things like: Possibly based around larger numbers of Blood Claw type units (2+ initiative) for the Great Company base(like the SW list design). Troops only being allowed to drop pod/planet fall onto the table rather than set up from the start/no garrison etc. inc. only so many Thunderhawks/LC available per turn and only by Planet fall at the start etc. and you wouldn't get to drop it all at once i.e only a fraction of the full 20 etc. The Strike Cruiser's Orbital Bombardment would still be a one turn thing (perhaps you pick which turn or roll for it instead??) but it's planet fall ability could still be used. Perhaps a change to the Deathwind Launcher might be possible too but as this seems silly it was another reason I set the list aside. I recognise that restrictions are key to this list but I'm not exactly sure what others would feel fair etc. Of course I assume it will just stay a fan list but I'd like both the Iron Wolves and Claws of Russ list to eventually/possibly be made approved but know that may not happen (Why the Iron Wolf list is still only a Fan list). So basically, could this be done for a Space Wolves list for Ragnar's GC basing off the current SW list? What sort of things could the list do with/without? What changes could be made to the current set up for marines to allow this? Or should I just use the Raven Guard list and make it Space Wolves-y? Cheers all. |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
Iron Wolf list? Not to go off topic but we probably should have a section in the Marine Lists uber stickied topic out to all the fan lists, no? Back on topic, not really sure what distinguishes them from other Great Companies. Can you give some data on that? |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
For I think the raven guard there was discussion of escorts rather than cap ships, so a squadron of escorts provides top cover for the game, being bumped any turn a real ship goes overhead. |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
^I'm sure that's since disappeared^ I did happen to think it's interesting though I always thought the presence of their crazy shadow shield / system thingy would be more interesting. Something that allows you to reroll, for purposes of the ship arriving ONLY, a failed strat when an enemy vessel is showing up. If you win, you bump the other ship though they still get to go first. Back to the Puppies: bringing in an escort to the list with a single pin-point attack well could be pretty sweet and could be useful to counter some of the lack of heavy armor |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
You could have something like the cruiser hitting turn 1 (note you need wolf scouts on the table as I believe if you ever have nothing deployed you lose) supported by thunderhawks and landing craft, then an escort every turn after that that drops in a grey hunter formation. |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
Space Marines dont use their escorts for transporting troops though (they're too easily destroyed for such precious cargo). They normally have only 1-5 Marines onboard leading the escort's crew. For a SW drop list I would remove all the allies (navy and titans) from the list and everything else that can't drop - Land Speeders for one - and require there to be no friendly models on the table at the start; everything must planetfall or teleport. I'd go a different direction for the spacecraft, closer to the standard version and require the list to take a special Battle Barge, that is the same as normal but can arrive in turn 1. |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
jimmyzimms wrote: Iron Wolf list? Not to go off topic but we probably should have a section in the Marine Lists uber stickied topic out to all the fan lists, no? Back on topic, not really sure what distinguishes them from other Great Companies. Can you give some data on that? Jimmy, I used to have pinned in the Index Astartes thread but took it out. Here it is: http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... lf#p499741 I've also now put in the fan list/alt section in the AI list. Hawklords are there. It's based off an older version of the SW list but you can see the sort of differences I'm thinking for the Claws list in the Great Company construction. The Claws would have Blood Claws as the base unit type in the GC. |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
GlynG wrote: For a SW drop list I would remove all the allies (navy and titans) from the list and everything else that can't drop - Land Speeders for one - and require there to be no friendly models on the table at the start; everything must planetfall or teleport. I'd go a different direction for the spacecraft, closer to the standard version and require the list to take a special Battle Barge, that is the same as normal but can arrive in turn 1. Yeah Glynn that was what I was thinking - only droppable stuff and vehicles by THT or LC. Also, possibly limiting what is in the army to roughly what's in Ragnar's GC plus the support vehicles etc. How would you handle the OB from a Battle Barge though? It's rather large for a turn 1 barrage. Would that be an issue? I think I'd prefer the Strike Cruiser myself though. Another thing I had brainstormed was as Ragnar has a reckless streak I thought perhaps his Strike Cruiser could lose the OB to stay in orbit longer dropping troops instead. |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
There's only so many points of Marines you can fit into a Strike Cruiser. Or a single Great Company come to that - does it really have to be only a single Great Company? If you want to be strict about it that would mean the list wouldn't be able to be played at points values over around 3k. Why not theme it around Ragnar's company but leave people have larger armies with other SWs in support too.? When I suggested a turn 1 Battle Barge I was imagining it would cost rather more than normal due to this advantage e.g. 450 or something. Or the list could allow a Strike Cruiser turn 1 AND optionally a Battle Barge turn 3 as well. Another idea, just scattergunning suggestions at the moment. |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
GlynG wrote: Space Marines dont use their escorts for transporting troops though (they're too easily destroyed for such precious cargo). They normally have only 1-5 Marines onboard leading the escort's crew. I can look up which one, but one of the escorts does a strike cruiser light role carrying a formation of marines and it was that one that was proposed in the Raven guard thread orignally. And I thought wolf great companies didn't have a max size, so you can be as big as you like 
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:34 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed | ||
Here's the original file I came up with years ago. It doesn't even have the Great Company construction that the SW list has now but I would likely follow that set up now. I'd probably look to adding some armour too.
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
that reckless orbit bit looks fun |
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| Author: | ortron [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
Hey gents, would it fundamentally break the game if you just allowed them to take more than 1 space craft? Eg I buy 2 strike cruisers, 1 declare the first will arrive in turn 1 and another in turn 3. Of course if my opponent brings 1 then he will have first or second pick of turns (based on strategy/roll off) and then I pick my second ones arrival last. Given they are 200+ and their effectiveness is often underwhelming, I'd have no problem with an opponent spending 400+ points of their force on something that won't hold ground or claim objectives. I think it would allow you to do what you want dobbsy with very little changes or special rules. It would be pretty self limiting as to bring more than two would risk one not showing up at all. |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Claws of Russ - brainstorming needed |
I've been finding the drop list option to be an all or nothing way (mostly nothing) to play for Space Wolves. You start the game with a bang (if you plot correctly and your opponent is helpful and has placed some of his army in your Drop Zone) and go out with a whimper. You break a few units through blast markers from deathwind pods but don't necessarily kill much (which then run out of your reach before you can kill them off and which rally next turn) and then you get smashed by the enemy army that's not yet activated leaving half your force stranded or fatally diminished. After seeing what the Eldar Dragonship can carry for 300 points I wonder if the Strike Cruiser could be updated.... I know it's unlikely. |
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