Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
RW bikes have the Teleport Homers instead of Attack Bikes which I thought was how they were set up initially. This limits the TH to the RW Core Formation and leaves it off the Support Formation of all Attack Bikes. But we see a lack of Attack Bikes compared to Land Speeders we could change it.
Missed that support formation. It seems a very odd formation though. Why would I have 5 attack bikes when I could have 5 tornadoes instead and get skimmer and 5 assault cannon for free?
Likewise the ravenwing formation - why not replace them with speeders?
I think the old? set up of bikes, 2 landspeeder tornadoes and 2 attack bikes with scout and teleport homers was a good one. The formation could garrison (4 with scout, 4 without - what is more the deployment was often a core of ravenwing bikes and then 'scouting' AB's and speeders which looked fluffy) and everything had a role. Plus you could keep the cost down (300 points was not unreasonable).
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List Structure isn't all that complicated but wording needs clearing up in the next draft. The reason was to ensure the theme and fluff of the list was taken in account. An Hunt for the Fallen lists SHOULD have more Wing units then any other type with proper support. I didn't want to see Codex lists with few awesome DA units.
Ok, so I would get a termie formation (or two) anyway, a ravenwing because they are my uber scouts and TH, I would definitively want the plasma preds as the warhound replacement and a formation of 1+ init fighters (the fighter is another issue but I see from previous discussion it has to wait before it becomes an obviously automatic choice, remember no one rated thunderbolts until the regular UK tournies started then they became auto include almost...). I can now get 4-5 other formations (Tacs for SC, scouts, thunderhawks) and either whirlwinds or a landing craft to taste. Then I will probably be torn between more predator warhounds or something else.
The list structure didn't really achieve anything. Space marine players want terminators. They also want tasty scouts/fast attack. And they definitively want predator warhounds. 1+ terminators and ravenwing achieves your objectives as far as I can see and pretty much matches what you can currently build.
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The Predators Executioners are still being drafted up. Their turrets are C&P job from the Leman Russes. I plan to change their Side Sponsons to Heavy Bolters instead of more plasma. And yes the plan was to charge more for the Executioners variant.
Wow, I had assumed the russ would be like the EpicUk ones. With those guns I assume you are looking at 350+ as the cost for 4? Why not heavy flamers instead of heavy bolters? Makes it slightly trickier to use, though really with a 60cm gun it will be doing long range work most of the time anyway. If it was a 45cm gun and slow fire you could do it as 1-1 with pred annihilators.
Shame the old fearless terminators went, I liked them
Would have been fun to have plasma and mortis autocannon dreds - give the mortis 2 'skyfire' twin autocannon at 30cm AP4+/AT5+/AA5+ or 45cm AP4+/AT5+/AA6+ (whichever does the job better, I would prefer the 30cm one) for an interesting upgrade path.
Special rules wise I would keep Intractable, replace ravenwing with teleport homers on attack bikes, delete unforgiven as the list structure and background does it and delete Hunt for the Fallen as it is crazy good and the list design achieves that feel.
But look at the lists you have designed and see if the simpler structure doesn't achieve it.
(And drop the plasma devs,plasma tacs covers that well enough, but they would be better with AP5+/AT5+
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I would urge you to consider
1+ Deathwing
1+ Ravenwing - 4 Bike Units, 2 landspeeder tornadoes and 2 Attack Bike Units (with teleport homers) - Upgrade 'Master' (no other upgrades) - 300 points
Ravenwing support - 5 of any of the following units: Ravenwing attack bikes (TH) and 'speeders with MM. Upgrades master & replace 2 unit with typhoons for 25 points or 4 for typhoons for 50 points (
Ironwing (Any mix of 4 vindies and destructors) - upgrade formation to any mix of annihilators or plasma for 50 points - 225 (and would be tempted to drop pred annihilators in this list)
Heavy (metal) Ironwing (Land raiders etc)
Assault
Devastator
Landing Craft
Nephilim Jetfighters
Scout (like the scout sniper idea)
0-1 Strike Cruiser
Tactical
Thunderhawk
Whirlwind
Change hunter upgrade to 1 hunter now you have excellent fighters.
(Really, those fighters, the model even looks pants.)
We want or need this to be AA focused for the DA for we lack that. We don't want it to be a ground sniper but we also lack AT or MW with no bombers or Titans. Granted the Ironwing might fix this. However I think the ability to snipe AC is in line with the spirit of the RW agility. This leaves the heavy bolters for defensive purposes, could even make them 15cm. Removing the Missiles can be chalked up to them assisting the Twin Lascanon effectiveness or that the pilot is so focused on sniping with the Twin Lascannon he cant use them effectively.![:{[]](./images/smilies/headbang.gif "Headbang")
well, I tried..... 
). In reality I think its just a slow adjustment. I'm willing to take the time to find the right balance without dropping my standards right off the bat.
