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| Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=27868 |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
So, I'm pretty pleased with how the IF list is shaping up, with some more playtests I'd be happy to move it to developmental later this year However I'm conflicted..... the 'siege defence experts' angle is just one facet of the imperial fists, they don't always fight that way, mostly they do it codex-style with certain specialisms..... I've been thinking lately that perhaps renaming the current list to 'Astartes Planetary Task Force' and creating a separate Imperial Fists list more in line with recent background, more as a codex variant than a very different list, would be a better fit, taking the EpicUK approach, and following the developments with the blood angels and dark angels..... I'll probably write the list anyway, and will continue to develop the siege marines too, just wondering if you feel there is room for Imperial Fists flavoured Codex marines too....? I've put a poll up which will hopefully spark some discussion |
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| Author: | Blip [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
I don't want to vote cos I haven't played it yet (though picked up some extra thud guns at the weekend with good intentions ! :-) ) Anyway I saw your post a few weeks back about this and wanted to chip in but had no time then. I think there is room in the epic community for these kind of "specialist" lists - if you arrange a game against or playing one you know what you are going to get and that can be fun. We used to play a lot of codex but it is fun to be able to go SW or Scions for a game with basically the same models and get a very new experience and challenge. However I can see your frustration and may want to play a more "flexible" force force for pickup games (for variety if nothing else) then I always think there is the codex list (or proxy for other marines - again for specialist games.) However I don't really know the IF fluff well and if there is a compelling "concept" for general IF list then go right ahead. it would be good to hear your outline of how you see them play... |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
My basic vision would be as modern codex marines but without titan support, I'd add the LR crusader and achilles, assault terminators back in instead of regular with thawks to fly them round in, then I'd probably look at caestus assault rams, centurions and thundefire cannons..... Also as it's using the newer toys I'd want storm talons instead of tbolts.... |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
You've pretty much have a repeat of the siege assault vanguard list. IIRC, that was Black Legion's and with his stepping down they need a new subAC so why don't you pick that up instead? Edit: confirmed. I'd take that one up too. That way you get both sides of the siege together. It'd actually be great fun to play them both off each other ! 
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| Author: | Xenocidal Maniac [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
Tough question. I personally don't really care what a list is called. But, if we're going to be strict about it, then I would agree that this list probably shouldn't be called the Imperial Fists list. They are about as codex adherent as the Ultramarines are, deviating from it even less than the Blood Angels with their Death Company, Sanguinary Priests, Stormravens, and other vampiric weirdness. I honestly think the Imperial Fists should just use the standard Astartes list. They're not divergent enough at all to warrant a separate list. If you do change the name of the list, I'd love to see "Imperial Fist" retained in the name somewhere, as they are known for being siege specialists. I don't know, maybe something like "Imperial Fist Siege Defense" or some such. Or a famous siege battle that they participated in. As far as your other proposed additions like Thunderfire cannons, Storm Talons, Centurions, etc., these are units that really should be added to the Codex Astartes list as they are standard issue for codex marines now. |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
Xenocidal Maniac wrote: As far as your other proposed additions like Thunderfire cannons, Storm Talons, Centurions, etc., these are units that really should be added to the Codex Astartes list as they are standard issue for codex marines now. QUICK!!! Put the worms back into the can before the endless debate resurfaces agains!!! EEEEEkkkkkk!  That being said, I like / prefer XM's version of the list name above. It stops the conversation about all the Siege Assault elements being added right in the name. |
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| Author: | Xenocidal Maniac [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
Sorry, I wasn't aware that there was debate surrounding this issue. All of these items are officially codex now and should be represented. I am sometimes surprised by what constitutes controversy in this community. It wasn't my intent to open a can of worms. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
The danger of retrospectively adding stuff is that you have endless debates about what to add....land raider crusaders, thunderfire cannons and caestus rams.... sure they're pretty good, but stinkin' centurions and the storm raven are stupid stupid ugly models and I'd rather die than see them in the main codex list.... so the price we pay is adding nothing to the codex list because if storm talons and centurions are added I'll kill us all.... |
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| Author: | Blip [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
I basically agree with the other comments - either this is a 2014 marine list (as everything is current standard marine fluff) which I'm not sure what you call it but probably not IF. Maybe Ultrimar?? Or you do two companion lists - the siege defence and the siege breaker/vanguard - both of which could be tagged "IF." Would be good to have a barran/Krieg synergy for marines. Of course they could be the same list and players have a fundamental choice made at points building stage as to which route you take - meaning you don't telegraph your intentions entirely by your list choice. Ps : I actually like the storm talon, esp in the plastic ;-) Just too many guns! |
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| Author: | Doomkitten [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
jimmyzimms wrote: QUICK!!! Put the worms back into the can before the endless debate resurfaces agains!!! EEEEEkkkkkk! NEW GW units? In the vanilla Marine list? *Hisses and bares claws* ...sorry, it's just an instinct.  kyussinchains wrote: because if storm talons and centurions are added I'll kill us all.... If you don't save a bolt for me, I'll haunt you. |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
No, reasons explained: The flavour for the IF is the Siege element. If they fight generally like a Codex list whilst not sieging, then just leave it at that and let players use the Codex list. I think two lists just complicates things. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
Have to agree with Dobbsy here, to some extent. In a way this actually revolves around the 'vanilla' codex Marines list and contents as much as the various flavours of other lists. As far as I am concerned a new (Marine) list is appropriate where there is a reasonably significant change to the units and/or formations available in that particular army variant or campaign. Here the IF are presented as the Marine "SWAT" team, a force that specialises in sieges, assaults in space etc. The key here is that they have access to specialist Weapons - that are presumably not available to other Codex. As with the BA, perhaps we could tailor the list to some extent to force the choices being made. In this case, perhaps between long-range artillery and ground attack fighters (or something along similar lines). However, the list is already treading a very fine line between the need for particular weapons and tactics to match a particular situation, and a general list of kit to match all situations - that rapidly expands to become the standard Marine codex (which after all is intended to be capable of a very flexible response to *any* situation) As for new units etc, please comment on this thread, where I am proposing an approach to allow us to test and potentially include new GW units in a more controlled manner. |
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| Author: | Angel_of_Caliban [ Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
I haven't really looked closely at the current list, however I remember when Frogbear was starting the list I suggested having 2 lists. IF Defensive and Offensive because we were running into the kitchen sink approach at the time. |
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| Author: | Angel_of_Caliban [ Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
Read this thread, some of the other thread, looked at the list.... 2 Armies, To avoid the "We have stick up our butt and we love Codex style" Re-name both lists to reflect the Imperial Fist's Legion, not Chapter. Allowing the occasional change for IF or a successor chapter that might be more unique then codex. Dorn's Hammer - Siege Offensive List and Dorn's Anvil - Siege Defensive List |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Poll - Future of the Imperial Fists list |
Angel_of_Caliban wrote: I haven't really looked closely at the current list, however I remember when Frogbear was starting the list I suggested having 2 lists. IF Defensive and Offensive because we were running into the kitchen sink approach at the time. We've already got a siege breaking list. I'm trying to guilt, prod, and cajole Kyuss into taking on the duties for
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