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Blood Angels List Development Thread

 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:50 am 
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pati wrote:
WTF is "moin"? :)


from wikipedia:
Moin is a Frisian and Low German greeting from East Frisia, Southern Schleswig, Bremen, Hamburg, Kiel, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, the eastern and northern Netherlands and Southern Jutland in Denmark, meaning "hello" and in some places "goodbye".

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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:50 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:
pati wrote:
WTF is "moin"? :)


from wikipedia:
Moin is a Frisian and Low German greeting from East Frisia, Southern Schleswig, Bremen, Hamburg, Kiel, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, the eastern and northern Netherlands and Southern Jutland in Denmark, meaning "hello" and in some places "goodbye".


Well done!

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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:48 pm 
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Ah, well, google first, social life second :D

Then another question!

Do you plan to allow Predators to have the "heavy support" option? to have Vindicators for example :) Maybe they were too deadly in combination with the Baal Predators..


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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:28 pm 
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Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
I've also always wondered why BA scouts don't get heavy bolters. Can anyone think of a good reason for this? Seriously asking - there could be an angle I'm overlooking. However, at first glance it seems to be a continuation of the "Like Astartes, but not as good" theme that the original list had.
Yep just revert them to standard. Simpler in the long run really.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:26 pm 
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Dobbsy wrote:
Yep just revert them to standard. Simpler in the long run really.


That's would be a change I'm really looking forward to.

Ole

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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:08 am 
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Played a game versus the BA list (pre-XM's and my own adjustments) with my Tau 6.71.

Lost on VPs 1512 - 862.

Made a few tactical errors (inc. moving forward too early) which cost me early (4-5 formations broken and suppressed) and couldn't rally till turn 3 when it was too late to do what I needed to do.

One thing that stood out for me was the aggressive use of BA Tacs with 3 LR transport doubling forward turn one. With two of these formations on the board the BA basically broke, destroyed and suppressed three of my four tank formations for most of the game.

It sort of felt that even though the activation count was down on the BA list they could still hurt you and obviously did (1512 - 862VPs!).... It made me wonder if the BA really have an issue with AT. It may cost you more to buy them but they are hard formations to kill. It seems that versus IG with loads of hard armour the BA may struggle but versus softer stuff (Tau for instance) I'm not so sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:59 am 
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Moin,
thank you for your effort and for some Life in here.

How many Points did you play? A tactical Formation with 3 Land raider is 500 Points wirhout a champion. That's 1/6 out of 3000 Points. I like the idea because i like Land raider but i don't see the Point of adding no annililater because of this.

How did the vanila scouts come along?

Dobbsy wrote:
Played a game versus the BA list (pre-XM's and my own adjustments) with my Tau.

Naming a Champion and not following is lead is rather contraproductive, is it not?

And what are you own adjustments?

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:10 am 
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Ole wrote:
Naming a Champion and not following is lead is rather contraproductive, is it not?

Well it's kinda rude to just turn up to a new gaming group and tell the other guy "sorry you can't play that list as it's out of date...." I can't dictate to people what they want to use. Not to mention the factor of "Sanguinary Guard?" I don't have any of them...." or "They cost more now? I'll have to adjust my list..." :)

Plus, it actually let me get a game in versus the older version of the list giving me some insight to the older list that I hadn't had chance to gauge before.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:55 am 
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Moin,

Dobbsy wrote:
Well it's kinda rude to just turn up to a new gaming group and tell the other guy "sorry you can't play that list as it's out of date...." I can't dictate to people what they want to use. Not to mention the factor of "Sanguinary Guard?" I don't have any of them...." or "They cost more now? I'll have to adjust my list..." :)


Of course it is. Lucky me i wasn't doing it. My apology if I was understand that way.

I was merely under the impression that we were debate/testing the 2.3.2 List. With more or less participation.
Therefore it was odd to me that you post a commend about an old list with adjustments you keep for yourself.

salut

Ole

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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:47 pm 
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Seriously? He had a game with his Tau in which his opponent was playing blood angels and thought it might be of interest. Maybe he won't go to the bother of posting it next time eh?

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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:05 pm 
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Wasn't LordotMilk from Germany too?

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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:32 pm 
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It's all good. :)

I just felt that the point was pertinent in the new list as there's been some debate around the view that the BA lose the activation race if they take AT.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:31 pm 
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I was the other end of that game. I just downloaded the Army List Compendium and went on my way. I'm about 5 games into Epic Armageddon, total, though I've played a game or two of Epic 40k years ago, and I have a lot of tabletop strategy gaming under my belt.

Dobbsy and I have a difference of opinion on the importance of spacing to mitigate AOE effects. It looked to be critical to the game's outcome from my perspective. He let my Marauders get 4 tanks and 4 Crisis Suit bases under one attack run. The extra blast from 6BP meant that both formations were broken by a single casualty each.

I had a formation of 6 assaults and 3 Vindicators. I kept my marines in contact with the tanks for cover, but from the other side of the table it must have looked like foot infantry with their transports. He moved railheads up and shot two of the Vindis away, expecting to slow the unit down. It didn't do that, but it did bring the railheads within striking distance for one of my Tac/Raider formations (they were hanging back because of what I had seen of the Railheads' rules).

One of my last turn-1 moves was to bring the death company up, and winning initiative on turn 2 let me use them to engage a Fire Warrior + 3 Devilfish + Skyray formation and wreck it. Death company are certainly satisfactory in their killing power when they make it to combat. They simply feel like they're too easy to ignore when they don't have jump packs (though I *might* be too reluctant to keep them in their transports).

I was certainly short some activations. 11 to 7, I think it was. I was looking at Scouts for a cheap hit, but I'm reluctant to bring models that are strictly worse than their companions in another list. Naked Tactical, Assault and Devastator formations in numbers might correct the problem. Then again, that might be where the lack of anti-tank firepower I've heard about is coming from.

---

Why aren't Storm Ravens true fliers, like in the 28mm game?

---

The Tacticals with Land Raiders came out to play because I have a pile of Raiders and I like using them. I'd bring the detachments of 4 if this list would let me, but it didn't. No, I don't have enough Terminator bases to bring Land Raiders that way. I could have added Predators instead, but I like my Land Raiders. I can sorta see how someone might think the Predator option is just better, but I'm not quite convinced.

---

The list at the start of the thread looks like 2.3, rather than 2.3.2 ... is there another version hidden around here?

---

The list at the start says that both kinds of Blood Angels dreads are frenzied, death company or no. Death company dreads pick up frenzied, but already have it. You might want to have death company rhinos pick up fearless, because the rhino option doesn't quite seem to be as good as the jump packs.

I don't see why BA scouts should be strictly worse than their compatriots in other lists, but then again it looks like the army doesn't pay points for their faster rhino-chassis vehicles. Both disparities seem unhealthy.

I wouldn't want to bring dreadnoughts at 75 points each.

I'm not impressed by Thunderbolts, at least not compared to Marauders. Having played every game so far with both kinds of plane in my lists, that 75-point difference feels like a no-brainer. Hell, the Marauders aren't even much worse as interceptors.

Not having points values in increments lower than 25 is a problem. The game needs that granularity. Sorry, I don't really care about how pretty anyone thinks the numbers are, because at that point you might as well just cut every points value down by 1:25 and save people some mental math. A 3000 point game really only has 120 points worth of granularity, and I don't think that's enough to work with small disparities like the extra speed on a BA rhino.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:43 pm 
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Thanks for your comments, very contemplative.

Just to clarify: marauders aren't comparable to tbolts as interceptors, because they can't intercept ;) Only fighters and fighter-bombers can intercept or CAP.

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 Post subject: Re: Blood Angels List Development Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:48 am 
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itcamefromthedeep wrote:
I don't see why BA scouts should be strictly worse than their compatriots in other lists, but then again it looks like the army doesn't pay points for their faster rhino-chassis vehicles. Both disparities seem unhealthy.

Agree on the scouts. The luciier pattern engines are free as they don't get admech allies aka Warhound a-go-go.
Good, bad, or other, that's the reasoning.

itcamefromthedeep wrote:
Not having points values in increments lower than 25 is a problem. The game needs that granularity. Sorry, I don't really care about how pretty anyone thinks the numbers are, because at that point you might as well just cut every points value down by 1:25 and save people some mental math. A 3000 point game really only has 120 points worth of granularity, and I don't think that's enough to work with small disparities like the extra speed on a BA rhino.


THIS THIS THIS THIS. Our neurotic inability to price things outside of multiples of 25 and ranges in multiples of 15cm just drives me nuts. itcamefromthedeep, you're my new favorite person today ;)

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