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| 2k surprising list http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26087 |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 2k surprising list |
In our playgroup we had never played empty assault crafts in the past, but the other evening, one of us started to assault ground units with his empty flying Landing crafts. We had a bit of an argument on the spirit of the air assault rules, which ended with my proposal to bring it up here. He used the following list: Codex Astartes 2k points: - Tacticals, SC / 375 pts. - Terminators / 350 pts. - Landing craft / 350 pts. - Landing craft /350 pts. - Land Speeders / 200 pts. - Land Speeders / 200 pts. - Thunderbolts / 175 pts. The game was against a very defensive SL army, but thats not the point. He assaulted very aggressively on the first turn, with teleporting terminators, doubling Land Speeders, and assaulting (empty) Landing crafts, who would then support further assaults. This proved devastating, as both the mechanised companies broke. On the second turn he pushed the advantage, while landing the Fearless crafts on the opponent blitz and another objective. And thats pretty much the game as it was. Is such a strategy intended by the current SM list? If yes, isn't the Landing craft, and to a lesser degree the Thunderhawk, awesome assault formations in and by themselves? |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
They are both allowed to assault even when empty, yep. It can be risky because a single critical hit kills them. A shadowsword on overwatch tends to make such assaults not worth undertaking. ;-) How much AA were they flying against? |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
Yeah that's perfectly legal though I will admit an unorthodox T1. An empty WE air assault is not uncommon to see with in T3 objective contesting activations. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
one of the old UK scene regular made heavy use of empty thunderhawks flying around and shooting stuff up before landing and grabbing objectives it sounds more to me like your friend just thought a little outside the box and developed some effective tactics with it... if I had some landing craft I'd be very tempted to try the tactic out, 4x FF3+ attacks anywhere on the table is very handy, plus it's fearless so no exploding if it loses the assault, thawk style 
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
kyussinchains wrote: one of the old UK scene regular made heavy use of empty thunderhawks flying around and shooting stuff up before landing and grabbing objectives it sounds more to me like your friend just thought a little outside the box and developed some effective tactics with it... if I had some landing craft I'd be very tempted to try the tactic out, 4x FF3+ attacks anywhere on the table is very handy, plus it's fearless so no exploding if it loses the assault, thawk style Shooting around, grabbing objectives sounds fine (well im not too keen on the grabbing objectives part, but alright). Actually using your 'craft to assault enemy defensive positions by itself does sound a little ridiculous though. @E&C: 2 Hydras and a pair of Thunderbolts. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
The "air game" adds another challenging dimension to E:A. 'Innovative' thoughts like the above are not unusual, and there are a number of recognised tactics used to exploit the strengths and weaknesses that the air-game exposes. As a consequence there have been a number of modifications to the original rules, notably:-
As to the amount of AA present, though possibly small for the start of a game, it is not unusual for an opponent to concentrate on reducing the AA capability of an army over the course of a game in order to carry out exactly these kind of assaults. |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
And everyone is ok with offensive empty landing crafts? |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
Quote: 2 Hydras and a pair of Thunderbolts. Mmmm probably a bit light. Quote: And everyone is ok with offensive empty landing crafts? I find that their serious drawbacks (a single critical hit is a kill, they can pick up so many BM's that it's impossible to activate them next turn, they have relatively poor non-FF weaponry, etc.) outweigh their nasty FF ability. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
LordotMilk wrote: Shooting around, grabbing objectives sounds fine (well im not too keen on the grabbing objectives part, but alright). Actually using your 'craft to assault enemy defensive positions by itself does sound a little ridiculous though. LordotMilk wrote: And everyone is ok with offensive empty landing crafts? Well as they say, "all is fair in love and war".  However, this tactic will only succeed against a lightly held objective and will not capture it even if the assault is successful. |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
Evil and Chaos wrote: Quote: 2 Hydras and a pair of Thunderbolts. Mmmm probably a bit light. At 2k points, that's still 1/8 th of the army in AA. Even with double the AA, I am not certain it would make much difference considering the 75% save chance of the Landing Craft. I just saw that you played a 3 Landing craft list in a recent EUK tournament. How did it fare, and what gave you a loss? |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
I think it's completely within the spirit of the rules and is as intentional as any other part of the air assault rules or marine list.....the spirit of the game is to have fun and try to win the game utilising clever tactics, I don't see anything in the game you describe that contradicts this really..... |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
I don't think many people start off with a gameplan of assaulting with empty flyers, usually it is a rare desperate ploy and only has a chance against very weak targets. What was the IG list as scout screens, formations on OW, AA woukd deal quite easily with the reported tactic |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
I hear you, and I am not lobbying for anything. It's just the first time it came up as a definite strategy, and as usual with unexpected plays, it worked well. Please do bear in mind that we play with NetEA scout screen rules, and therefore they are of little help against air assaults. Edit: If anything, it is a decent argument against THawks having Fearless (new EC list). @Steve54: If your post was a question, the IG had 2x Sentinel. |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2k surprising list |
The scout screen should be able to stop the teleporters |
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