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[NetEA] Iron Hands (Experimental)

 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Dobbsy wrote:
Oh that sort of thing is fine but even the Recon formation is still just a Scout formation etc ;) Anything with the exact same formation and unit make up should probably be named the same for clarity of play. I know militarised names sound cool but for the sake of your opponents it's easier to stick with canon. :)

:D true, why make things more complicated than they need to be.
(Guessing this is a leftover from the first list when jimmyzimms had scouts+tacticals as a recon squad...)


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:19 pm 
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That's not renamed yet? [scribbles into his To-Do list]
Yeah that's an evolutionary relic :)

Close Combat was from another version that had Vindis and Pred Destructors in the same formation.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:47 pm 
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uvenlord wrote:
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Am I wrong or can TH's only AA defensively (as they are Bombers and can't intercept) or when enemy remain in arc? Or is your plan to have no AA apart from Hunters? Am I missing something here?

Right now we only have Hunters (and landed thunderhawks) so thats why we look at other options, like the Storm Talon. When Thunderhawks land they have som flak attacks but if they stay in the air they can only shoot at interceptors attacking them. (If I read the rules right?)
As an aside, here in the UK we allow airborne aircraft to shoot at enemy a/c that have ended their movement within arc and range, irrespective of the target of the enemy a/c.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:37 am 
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uvenlord
Bombers should be able to provide an AA bubble to wherever they are on the tabletop. They can shoot anything after it makes an approach move. It doesn't say "approach move toward them".

They can do this whether in the air or on the ground.

So, basically, the way Ginger's guys do things is the way they should be done, at least in this aspect.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:08 am 
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Simulated Knave wrote:
uvenlord
Bombers should be able to provide an AA bubble to wherever they are on the tabletop. They can shoot anything after it makes an approach move. It doesn't say "approach move toward them".

They can do this whether in the air or on the ground.

So, basically, the way Ginger's guys do things is the way they should be done, at least in this aspect.



Yup. That's a big fat multiple DC AA bubble around an Interdictor. The drawback is that it cannot intercept as it's basically a lumbering beast. Let me incorporate the Titans from above and the updated WW battery and we'll play test from there.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:21 am 
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One could give the Interdictor a special rule allowing it to attack anything that passes through its bubble, as well. That might be going too far, though.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:22 am 
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Better to work out a reasonable Storm Talon stats and be done with it :)

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:05 am 
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Meh. There's no model and it's basically the Thunderbolt.

Me, I'd go with the Storm Eagle. Way more fun, anyway. Flying Land Raiders are awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:34 am 
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Well technically there's no models for anything now... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Simulated Knave wrote:
uvenlord
Bombers should be able to provide an AA bubble to wherever they are on the tabletop. They can shoot anything after it makes an approach move. It doesn't say "approach move toward them".

They can do this whether in the air or on the ground.

So, basically, the way Ginger's guys do things is the way they should be done, at least in this aspect.

The whole "aircraft rules" is a little bit blurry, I always thought the intent was to shoot at other arcraft attackin "you" but it doesn't say that... But on another end you could only shoot at enemy "interceptors" so the umbrella is still only for defending your aircraft not you ground units and they can only be used if the enemy ends its movement there... well no biggie, think I will play it as Ginger suggested for now and wait for the Storm Talon to emerge :)


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:39 am 
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And see my comments on the Storm Talon here.

Yes it is similar to the TBolt, though not an exact match because of superior Initiative and manoeuvrability. Inevitably the stats are going to be very similar given the limited flexibility in the stats mechanics, but should be sufficiently different to make them an interesting choice.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:46 am 
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Uvenlord, you should note that the "aircraft rules" were only bolted onto the main ruleset at the end of the development process and as such are considered rather 'clunky'. However they do add some of the main aspects of aerial combat, notably air-superiority and off-world arrival (planetfall).


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:01 am 
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Quote:
Well technically there's no models for anything now... ;)


There's no in production models. Big difference.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:59 am 
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From the Storm Talon thread:
jimmyzimms wrote:
Ginger wrote:
Ok, so I am allowed to take 10x separate Storm Talon fighters for 1000 points . . . TLC would be drooling at the prospect. ;D

Seriously I would check out the effects of spamming the ST; even at 200 points a pair this brings back the shades of the Tau '5 aces', especially with a 45cm ground attack that can sit outside most AA and still pick off enemy formations. Even if that is only a single shot, repeated attacks are likely to have a desired effect purely through laying BMs.


Ha ha! Yeah there's potential for general beardiness if those stats were taken verbatim. Remember now, that's what's in the Iron Hands list, not suggestions for general use. In that list there's plenty of army wide restrictions that prevent that sort of deal but in a more general list that could be a problem.

They're in the 1/3 allies section but there don't seem to be any other restrictions that I can see? 10 x individual Storm Talon in 3k looks perfectly abusable. Build the rest of your army around taking out or suppressing the enemy's AA and if you succeed your 10 Storm Talons would have free rain on them, with nothing the opponent could do.

You really need to make Storm Talons 2 for 200. Drop the weapon upgrade option for them too, no other aircraft in the entire game has a weapon upgrade option for a secondary weapon, the game abstracts these.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Iron Hands
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:27 am 
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Folk, let's keep discussion on Storm Talons on the ST thread and keep the discussion clear and in one place. It's already a turbulent enough discussion :)

Until we lock that down no further discussion on incorporating ST's in the Iron Hands should be discussed. We need a unit first then we can discuss if/how/why to incorporate it here.

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