Well, that is a pleasant surprise
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| Dreadnoughts http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=23865 |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Dreadnoughts |
I know something similar has been proposed before, but we are in different times. The follwoing proposal would make Dreadnoughts much more attractive: Additional upgrade option for SM dtechament with transports: Trade transport option with 1 Dreadnought for + 25 points. Yes, on tacts it would be less interesting point wose, but the difference in points is not significant. Thoughts? |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
Personally, I don't think the issue with Dreads is actually their ability or, to a lesser degree, their costing. I think it's actually the way they slot into the list that makes them less attractive. You lose transport speed when you add a Dread and that often makes people avoid them unless they put them in a Defensive position (Blitz) or drop them via Pod or TH/LC. I think they're a nice asset with a drop force given they bring much needed MW in engagements and infantry can hug them for cover. I actually debated whether to just try dropping them to 25 points each given that for 50 points you can buy numerous unit types in other lists for the same and get better troops (Hammerheads for example), but decided to leave it alone a while. |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
Precisely, by swapping transports for dreads you don't lose anything. And you win nice garrison formations. Alternatively, 2 Dreads for 75 points and keep all else as is is a decent alternative. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
IMO, just go back to original dreadnought stats for 25pts each. They're just not worth as much as a character, etc. |
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| Author: | Reedar [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
Quote: IMO, just go back to original dreadnought stats for 25pts each. Must admit i'm not too clued up on the SM side of things, but 25pts does seem a bit cheap - that's the same as an Ork Killa Kan. Surely an SM Dreadnought is better than that? What about 35pts - matches the Ork ones then? Just my two cents..... Cheers Reedar |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
Ork ones are overpriced :-) |
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| Author: | Reedar [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
I know! Another rarely seen unit.... |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
There have been numerous attempts to make Dreadnoughts 'more usefull', and to give them some form of transport option. These have all failed because all such attempts end up departing from the accepted 'fluff' for one of the most iconic units of the game. Like many other situations in E:A you need to change your strategy when using them, rather than trying to change the rules / stats to make them fit your strategy. Dreadnoughts can already be used in three ways:-
Basically you have to assume that they are likely to be relatively 'static', though they can boost shooting, assaults and formation size while making infantry harder to hit. This together with ATSKNF is well worth the 50points per unit. The only potential change relates to their armour value which in 40K is rather better than Space Marines, while here it is the same. This has also been extensively debated, and while a boost to 3+ was tried, IIRC general opinion went against this in the end. |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
Actually, the Compendium lists SM and CSM Dreadnoughts as havng 3+ save... |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
Well, that is a pleasant surprise
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| Author: | GlynG [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
They should definitely return to 4+ armour as originally IMO, their armour is equivalent to a Predator and artificially boosting the stats distorts how the unit should be and unecesarilly confuses players coming from the rulebook or EpicUK. Instead just make them 35 points each (and the Captain the same too). 25 would be too cheap and there's no need for everything to be a multiple of 25. |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
If we were to change, I'd prefer a 75 for 2 (You'd actually see more Dreads as a by-product too) design myself. We could keep a 50 point for 1 purchase option too in case you can't fit 2 in where you want them (transport capacity etc). I'm not in favour of 35 point increments - especially in the Codex list. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
2 for 75 wouldn't get taken IMO. Plus they're just not worth 35pts! :-) For Gavin's utility list: - Garrisons like that don't mesh well with the Marine army style. - Drop podding like that can work, but you're adding an AV target to a formation that can't enter buildings to hide. - adding a dreadnought to terminators in a landing craft adds a unit with worse armour than everything else present (not good for marines where every kill in an engagement counts) I just think that like Razorbacks (and vindicators!) they're only worth 25pts as upgrades. |
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnoughts |
I would take them at 75 points for 2. At that price, one can even wonder if 4+ is not enough of a save. I do think they are worth more than 25 points, especially considering Dread stats from other armies (orks, Chaos). I don't think they should become the mainstay of Sm armies, but viable options yes. |
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