Tactical Command
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Badab War Expansion [v0.1]
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=21811		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Apologist [ Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Badab War Expansion [v0.1]
Into the Maelstrom: The Badab War PDF [v1.0] download clicky link


THE TYRANT'S LEGION
Background
In addition to his own full Chapter of Astartes, Lufgt Huron created a series of mixed armies comprising human Defence Auxilia troops (along the lines of the Imperial Guard) formed around a specialised core of Astral Claws Space Marines, whose task it was to secure the Badab Sector from any who would dare to invade. It was the creation of the Tyrant's Legion that was the most egregious offence committed by Lufgt Huron, let alone his massive expansion in the ranks of Space Marines he commanded. They Tyrant's Legion specialised in using their 'inferiors' as disposable cannon fodder and as living shields to maximise their own effectiveness in battle.

Abstract:
A combination of the Astral Claws space marines and their PDF while staying within existing rules. Also, to represent the Forgeworld Imperial Armour background and list where possible.

Changes in 0.1:
  • Beta list, for critque before it goes 'live' for playtesting.
  • Introduction of Leman Russ Annhilator, as per Imperial Armour
  • Mercenaries
  • Auxilia
  • Astral Claws
  • Creation of The Tyrant's Due rules.
  • List prep

Changes in 0.2:
  • Turbolaser option on Thunderhawk now +25pts


CODEX: BADAB WAR
Abstract:
A list that removes all Allies from the Codex: Astartes list; and is balanced to take these omissions into account.

Background:
During the Badab War, the Imperial Forces withdrew all forces from direct conflict with the exception of the Adeptus Astartes, reasoning that fighting Astartes risked undermining faith in the God-Emperor.

This list allows 'pure' Astartes forces, suitable for conflicts where Imperial Navy and Titan Legion support is not available, and also for Space Marine forces that disdain outside support, such as Red Scorpions and Iron Hands.

Changes in 0.1:
  • Removal of Imperial Navy and Titan Legion units
  • Adoption of Dobbsy's trial changes. (Predator Destructor with FF3+ is noted as 'Predator Destructor (Badab)', since it's not a different pattern per se).
  • Hunter upgrade allows a second Hunter.
  • Introduction of Land Speeder Tempest upgrade option.
  • Removal of Transport from Scout formation; replaced with Land Speeder Storm upgrade option.
  • Introduction of Thunderhawk Gunship (Void War) option.

Changes in 1.0:
  • Thunderhawk Gunship (Void War) option updated to be identical to Thunderhawk Gunship (Close Air Support).
  • 'Space Marine Support Formations' renamed to 'Space Marine Aerospace Assets'.
  • Strike Cruiser moved to Aerospace Assets (from Detachments).
  • Duplicate Landing Craft in Detachments removed.

Changes in 1.1:
  • Thunderhawk (Void War) has been altered – the Turbo Laser Destructor is now an optional swap for the Battle Cannon (mainly for modelling purposes).
  • List Renamed Codex: Badab War to avoid conflict with NetEA Codex: Astartes.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Quote:
A list that removes all Allies from the Codex: Astartes list - Removal of Imperial Navy and Titan Legion units

I don't really get the point, but hey ho. :-)
Author:  Apologist [ Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Quote:
A list that removes all Allies from the Codex: Astartes list - Removal of Imperial Navy and Titan Legion units

I don't really get the point, but hey ho. :-)


:D
I'm hoping this list will make for a good start to an eventual Badab War supplement, with Tyrant's Legion (Astral Claw/Tiger Claw marines and inducted Guard), Adeptus Mechanicus (who invaded the subsector on a mission of their own) and lots of lovely background.

If nothing else, it'll provide a release valve for the discussion on the main Codex: Astartes list, and a (hopefully) fun alternative for people who would like to try a more up-to-date structure – reflecting things like the Thunderhawk weaponry and Scout transport. :)

I recognise that following 40k's current list is viewed by some with disdain, but I for one would like to use some Land Speeder Storm and Tempest models! ;)
Author:  BlackLegion [ Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
You forgot to mention the Siege Assault Vanguard :)

@Land Speeder Tempest: There are really few Chapters who use it. I'm not sure it should be in this list.

@Void War Thunderhawk: I recommend naming the Turbo-Laser Destructor "Single Turbo-Laser Destructor" to not confuse it with the Titan mounted version which lacks the "Double-barelled" prefix.

Edit: Oh one thing should worry you: In the Badab War the chapters where heavily supported by the Imperial Navy. Read: spaceships and aircrafts.
Author:  Apologist [ Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Quote:
You forgot to mention the Siege Assault Vanguard

Ta – I'll add them when (and if) this is developed into a full supplement.

Quote:
@Land Speeder Tempest: There are really few Chapters who use it. I'm not sure it should be in this list.

I've included it to compensate for the loss of AA cover – while it's not stellar at the role, it is another option to simply 'loads of Hunters'.

Quote:
@Void War Thunderhawk: I recommend naming the Turbo-Laser Destructor "Single Turbo-Laser Destructor" to not confuse it with the Titan mounted version which lacks the "Double-barelled" prefix.

Good suggestion. For the moment, I'm following the Black Templars' example, which is listed as so. I'm regarding it as similar to how heavy bolters have slightly differences across lists (being AA in some cases etc).

Quote:
Edit: Oh one thing should worry you: In the Badab War the chapters where heavily supported by the Imperial Navy. Read: spaceships and aircrafts.

Heh – this is the other side of the boot for me going for a recent background-adherent list! :D
For the moment, I'm happy to gloss over this for mechanical reasons, though I will address this issue (the plan is for scenarios to grant access to the Imperial Navy; which keeps the army list itself 'pure' for people to use that way).

First and foremost, this list represents Space Marines that are fighting without allied support (hence why they can still use their own Spacecraft). The Badab War background is very secondary for the moment. As I note in the expansion, this list can be used to represent Chapters that (for one reason or another) either don't, or can't, have Navy or Titan support, such as Red Scorpions or Iron Hands.

Ta very much for the feedback!
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
The release valve thing never quite works, IMO - people complain it's too similar to the basic Codex list.

Looking at this, I'd also say it's pretty similar. I'd recommend adding some more Badab stuff. I'm also not sure the Tempest fits - I think it'd fit best with the White Scars (or even the Dark Angels).

Also, on a semi-related note, Tranquility Sniper Squads would be both appropriate and a nice alternative to Scouts.
Author:  Ulrik [ Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Simulated Knave wrote:
The release valve thing never quite works, IMO - people complain it's too similar to the basic Codex list.


Some people do. Other people obsessivly point to the Eldar lists for how little difference you need to make a viable variant.

For me a list needs a) a couple of new units, b) the removal of a couple of units. If the units are central to the list it creates a very different experience. Add special rules to taste, but sparingly, like how a master chef adds salt to his dishes.

edit: For the Badab War, remove all titans, keep Navy formations, move Thunderhawks and Strike Cruiser to Ally section (rename section to Aerospace assets), add the Close Air Support Thunderhawk Gunship (turbo laser and hellfire missiles from the compendium). Add Land Speeder Storm to scouts instead of rhinos because it's cool. Done.
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Ulrik wrote:
edit: For the Badab War, remove all titans, keep Navy formations, move Thunderhawks and Strike Cruiser to Ally section (rename section to Aerospace assets), add the Close Air Support Thunderhawk Gunship (turbo laser and hellfire missiles from the compendium). Add Land Speeder Storm to scouts instead of rhinos because it's cool. Done.

Sounds interesting
Author:  Apologist [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Ulrik wrote:
[1]remove all titans,
[2]keep Navy formations,
[3]move Thunderhawks and Strike Cruiser to Ally section (rename section to Aerospace assets),
[4]add the Close Air Support Thunderhawk Gunship (turbo laser and hellfire missiles from the compendium).
[5]Add Land Speeder Storm to scouts instead of rhinos because it's cool.


1) Done.
2) Not done, as it goes beyond the abstract in the first post (remember that the list is to be used in Badab War, but not exclusive to Badab War) – buuuuut I'm very keen to include the option in scenarios: shipping lane void combat was pretty important during the Badab War!
3) Interesting! Why so?
4) Instead of, or in addition to, the Void War version? I'm not averse to either.
5) Done.

Simulated Knave wrote:
I'm also not sure the Tempest fits.

I've included it to compensate for the loss of AA cover. I'd be very happy to hear other AA suggestions that don't involve Imperial Navy.

Quote:
Also, on a semi-related note, Tranquility Sniper Squads would be both appropriate and a nice alternative to Scouts.

While they're a cool concept, upgrading a Scout stand with Sniper would be how I'd represent them at Epic scale. At best, they'd be a scenario unit.

Ta for the feedback, chaps.
Author:  Ulrik [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Now I want to start playing my suggested list (or rather, my version of Apologist's list :))

I would keep Thunderbolts in the list simply because they fulfill a unique niche the Space Marines never do for themselves (fighter cover, CAP) while the Titans directly compete with SM ground formations. Plus, the Badab fluff did have them using Navy support didn't it? I'd move Thunderhawks (and Landing Craft!) to the ally section for two reasons: First, it gives some "niche protection" to the original Astartes list where that list is better for Air Assaults and Planetfall, and secondly because the ally section is rather empty without Titans - 33% is almost no restriction at all if all that's in there is aircraft.

The Close Support and the Void War are almost identical, aren't they? The difference would be that the CS version has Hellstrike Missiles for more AT punch. So one or the other (call it the Void War, that's cool), depending on testing. The reason I suggested the Close Support is that that is the one in the compendium.

Fluff:
Quote:
During the Badab War the God-Machines of the Adeptus Mechanicus were not available, and the Astartes adapted to this with their customary efficiency. Detachements of Marines with Tactical equipment were issued Land Raiders, normally reserved for the elite Terminators, and together the power of the bolter and the Land Raider were more than enough to break through any enemy line, a duty normally performed by the awesome Battle Titans. Thunderhawks were equipped with powerful Turbo Lasers and Hellfire missiles, giving the Astartes heavy firepower wherever and whenever it was needed.

The broken terrain of Badab would have been perfect for the maneuverable Scout Titans, but Astartes Scout detachments were issued Land Speeder Storms to allow them to move unimpeded over ground where even the trusty Rhino would have had trouble advancing. This gave them the freedom of movement needed to give the Astartes commanders a complete picture of the tactical situations, and they launched many succesful ambushes from areas the enemy was sure were empty of threats.
Author:  Apologist [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Clicky link for 1.0 update
Changes in 1.0:
  • Thunderhawk Gunship (Void War) option updated to be identical to Thunderhawk Gunship (Close Air Support).
  • 'Space Marine Support Formations' renamed to 'Space Marine Aerospace Assets'.
  • Strike Cruiser moved to Aerospace Assets (from Detachments).
  • Duplicate Landing Craft in Detachments removed.
+++

Ulrik wrote:
I would keep Thunderbolts in the list simply because they fulfill a unique niche the Space Marines never do for themselves (fighter cover, CAP) [...]Plus, the Badab fluff did have them using Navy support didn't it?

Abstract:
A list that removes all Allies from the Codex: Astartes list; and is balanced to take these omissions into account.
The 'USP' of this list is that it involves no Allies; so I will not add Navy formations to this list (except in specific Scenarios). Of course, it's a big sandpit, so feel free to add them in to your own games :)

Thanks for the feedback – and the background too – I've updated the list and made it '1.0'.
So: going live! If anyone would like to playtest the list (or point out glaring problems!), that'd be spiffy.
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
aren't there some freaky units fielded by some of the stranger chapters that ended up in the badab war?
Author:  BlackLegion [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Not really. There are some Chapter Tactics employed if you use some certain special character which gives some special ability to some units.

I made a comprehensive list here:
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=20107
Author:  Ulrik [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Another idea; if you want to drop the Marauders, have a look at the other Thunderhawk variant (Saturation Bombing i think).
Author:  zombocom [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Codex Astartes: Badab War v0.1
Gotta be honest, I'm struggling to see the point of this list...
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