Tactical Command
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Changes to trial
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=21190		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Dobbsy [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Changes to trial
Hi all

Here's the list of things to trial for the Codex list.

Primary
Land Raiders 325 point per formation/75 point upgrades(no 85 point add-ons)
Vindicators 225 per formation
Tacticals 275 per formation. Allow LR upgrade
Predators 250 per formation/FF3+ for Destructor
Thunderbolts 175 per squadron
Warlord at 825

Secondary
If you feel extra enthusiastic please feel free to trial the Warhounds pair at 500 (no singles) as well. Regardless of whether these make the list I would still like to see how people fair and feel about the Warhound adjustment in relation to how it makes your lists builds feel etc.

Without the Warhound change (no singles) the problem with the changes is that they're largely just points buffs (barring the TBs) and I'm highy aware that it just gives Marines a large boost, as now you might get all of the above as well as single WHs.... ::)

Testing of the above should still continue however, to see what it produces in terms of choices. We'll see.

Cheers all!
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
I think some of those changes had already been accepted by Hena, and so were on target to go into the Army Book... (Tacs, Vindies, and LRs, IIRC).
Author:  Dobbsy [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
Going by his post elsewhere, Hena would prefer LR to stay at 350 and Vindies at 250.
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
Maybe so. I do remember him agreeing that 75 pt LRs would be OK. And they approved the tac changes here. It might be good to check with neal on what he's got.
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
Quote:
Land Raiders 325 point per formation/75 point upgrades
Vindicators 225 per formation
Tacticals 275 per formation. Allow LR upgrade
Predators 250 per formation/FF3+ for Destructor

Please answer the following if its either already Official or is/was up for testing?

So is the Land Raider FF4 or FF5?
Vindicator Walker? 50 points each right?
Tacs were 275? Just adding LR upgrade right?
Preds formation 250 with a mix of type or +X points for Annihilators?

So no Single Warhound at all eh? Or that a testing? Rug mentions that Warlord most likey don't need a price break so maybe that's a unneeded test? And T-Bolts at 175? Really? Huh.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
1.As far as I was aware FF4+ LR has been standard for a while now.
2.yes - AFAIK walker has been on them for a while now
3.yes
4.Straight 250 regardless of type with FF3+ Destructor

5. Secondary changes are more up to you really. I can't win a consensus on WHs but it would be nice if some folks are willing to try it anyway - not that I expect to see it much in tournaments, but we'll see. Warlord change is there to let you take a Thunderbolt squadron for your 1/3 allotment after their price adjustment and see if -25 points is really that much of a problem.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
simulated knave wrote:
Maybe so. I do remember him agreeing that 75 pt LRs would be OK.

Yep, but his add ons were 85 points each not a flat 75 for all. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
We browbeat him back to 75 here. :)

I'd check with neal, if you haven't already.

Of course, if you have and those changes WEREN'T included, I think you could justify correcting that.
Author:  GlynG [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
All looks good to me. When I get a chance to play (which isn't likely to be till spring 2012 unless I can find epic players in Costa Rica or Panama) then I'll test them out (including the optional Warhound change but not the Warlord, as one is too big to pack).

For ease of reference/use might it be worth producing a 'trial army list' pdf with all the primary changes included?
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
What time scale are you looking at for responses. I should get some NET testing in in a month's time.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
I think if these go into the Army lists book we can take the year to decide on them. If not ... longer ;) :D
Author:  CaptainSenioris [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
Are dreadnoughts reverting back to a 4+ save as well?
Author:  Dobbsy [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
Not at this point. It's on my review list though, Captain.
Author:  Dave [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
Dobbsy wrote:
Hi all

Here's the list of things to trial for the Codex list.

Primary
Land Raiders 325 point per formation/75 point upgrades(no 85 point add-ons)
Vindicators 225 per formation
Tacticals 275 per formation. Allow LR upgrade
Predators 250 per formation/FF3+ for Destructor
Thunderbolts 175 per squadron


I used the point changes in two games the weekend before last, no FF3+ Destructors though. A loss by points to the Knights and a win in points against SM who didn't use any of the formations that were changed except 2 Tacticals. Here was my list:

http://traitor-legion.appspot.com/choos ... x1~546~547
Author:  Frosthammer [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to trial
played a game against Onyx & his Red Corsairs last night using some of the suggested changes - Vindies, Preds, LR, Warlord & T-Bolts...

my SM 3,000 list -
Tac Marines + SC + Hunter
Predator Detachment (all annihilator)
Predator Detachment (all annihilator)
Land Raider Detachment
Vindicator Detachment
Whirlwind Detachment
Warlord
Thunderbolt Squadron
Land Speeder Detachment

Disclaimer: i am still a noob when it comes to EPIC, i generally use termies in my lists (the lack of them in the above list caught Onyx offguard :lol:) and this list was created more to test out the changes than to be competitive...

Initial Observations:
1. the cheaper points cost is generally good as for once i had more activations that my opponent - 9 to his 8

2. 25 point cost changes to Warlord and Thunderbolts don't seem necessary to me...25 points doesnt seem to make a big difference for these two units.

3. Preds & Vindies hit hard (a pred detachment killed a warhound in a single turn, a first for me) but are too fragile as the formation of 4 isnt resilient enough...i can spend the points elsewhere to make a more competitive list...i guess that is the biggest problem with vanilla marine basic armour detachments...too small...unless u spend the points to add on more tanks they are too easily broken, destroyed...i would like to see the preds start with 6 tanks, then i think they would be far more effective...

4. LR worked nicely and the slight reduction in points seemed fair...at 350 points i didnt think they were the equal of teleporting Terminators...teleporting termies seem to scare the bejesus out of opponents (and tend to munch most things they latch onto), whereas land raiders are just a bunch of tanks they can shoot at...sure the mobile firepower is nice but i find in EPIC engaging is far more potent for SM than relying on shooting...

anyhoos, i wont rant about the way CAP works here as that is for another thread...but will try to get some more games in trialling the changes to get a more balanced view...1 game does not a playtest make :)
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