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Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence

 Post subject: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:39 am 
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With the many thoughts going through my head regarding the Imperial Fists, I am at two minds whether they require a special rule. If there was one, it would have to be quite placid as I feel the list structure itself should be the signature of the force. That was until I woke this morning with a special rule :)

From the stories and tidbits I have read, it is evident that the IF are able to make excellent use of cover for defensive-siege purposes. Without having silly mathematical additions or verbose rules, this could be represented in a more elegant format.

The idea below I think works so I would be interested in your thoughts (rewording may be necessary):

Fortified Defence
When, with at least 50% of the formation defending from cover at the start of an assault, Imperial Fists count a 'drawn' combat result as a win. The opponent is broken with no extra casualties and follows the rules for [insert reference here].


In effect, there is no 2nd round of combat with Imperial Fists who are defending from cover - there is always a winner and a loser.

This rule would also open up the possibility (supplement wise) for Iron Warriors to have a Siege Specialists rule which would be that they always win drawn combats when assaulting cover - hence the two would cancel each other out. The only time a drawn combat in cover would continue with Imperial Fists is if the Iron Warriors were doing the attacking.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:19 pm 
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Elegant and interesting. It could potentially be quite powerful and would have to be play tested, but it is a nice idea to modify the assault resolution process without messing with unit stats. Also, I like rules that encourage specific tactics. This makes the player use the force in a different way voluntarily, rather than making an artificial rule that forces the player to do certain things. I this way, a player is free to use the army in any way they please, but unles playing to the force´s strengths, results may turn out to be sub optimal.

Anyone painting or playing IF out ther? I think you should try this rule out for a couple of games.


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:25 pm 
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While it's quite elegant, I don't see it being needed. Especially when you consider that the other siege lists don't have anything similar.


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Well they could get a +1 to cover saves if in Fortified Positions. So a 3+ save in Trenches and a 2+ Save in Bunkers.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:28 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
Well they could get a +1 to cover saves if in Fortified Positions. So a 3+ save in Trenches and a 2+ Save in Bunkers.


That seems a more interesting proposition.


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Because Terminators are so easy to kill, giving them a 2+ RA save in Bunkers is a wonderful idea.

Morgan Vening


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:42 pm 
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Morgan Vening wrote:
Because Terminators are so easy to kill, giving them a 2+ RA save in Bunkers is a wonderful idea.

Morgan Vening


It would be 2+ / 4+, not 2+ / 2+.

And if Terminators are hanging about in bunkers, then they're not teleporting next to my Titan and kneecapping it. :-P

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:18 pm 
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Bearing in mind that the terminators in this list will have no FF or heavy weapons, if they want to sit in bunkers that's fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:17 am 
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How about if the formation comes with their own teleporting bunkers! Now that would be fun :D

===============

Tranches/bunkers will be the same as in Seige to attain parity

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:23 am 
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That's a serious option in my mind FB. Bunkers aren't always so easy to spot in the rubble of a battlefield. I just wouldn't allow Terminators to take the option personally.


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:29 am 
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Dobbsy wrote:
That's a serious option in my mind FB. Bunkers aren't always so easy to spot in the rubble of a battlefield. I just wouldn't allow Terminators to take the option personally.


Sorry dude. It was meant to be a joke of teleporting Terminators with THunderhammehr/Stormshield and Bunkers.

That would be a 2+ Save with a 4+ RA save with a 6+ Inv save with EA+1MW anywhere on the table (most likley on the blitz) :D

Your idea involving scouts is a serious consideration (even as a planetfall rule). So I was not having a dig. I should have been more clearer on that point. Apologies.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:45 am 
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:D yeah but actually I was thinking you could allow any foot infantry (barring assault Termies- as that wouldn't make sense) to occupy them actually. You could play with what effect bunkers would have but some ideas could be:

- Teleporting bunkers provide the crossfire actions necessary for a sedentary force so they don't have to (but can if necessary..?) leave their bunkers to form crossfires. A canny player could teleport a complex of bunkers so any opposition forces has move carefully out if they win the initiate or get crossfired as they approach IF deployed bunkers...
e.g Camouflaged bunkers were hell on earth for allied forces vs the Japanese in WW2. They could pass right by and get hit with enfillade fire etc.

- Specific IF bunkers provide a RA armour save for troops within. You could work out costings to these bunkers I'm sure. Anything can be costed properly ;)

- "Super-bunkers" carry a void shield or two with a nasty weapon system etc..


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:14 am 
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Things to think about - I just do not wish to make it all powerful - I just want them to have a specific playstyle

Another idea was to use planetfall/teleporting rules for small formations of scouts in 'foxholes'. These could offer the crossfire talked about above.

The issue with trenches and bunkers is that they are larger structures (10cm wide for trenches and 5cm square for bunkers?) so I need to be a little realistic here.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:39 am 
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Oh of course I'm just saying that adjustments to the norm can be done, you make allowances for those changes - just as an idea -10cm bunker width means the troops might need to have smaller formations or narrower frontages, or only 1 unit per bunker etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists - Fortified Defence
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:39 am 
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frogbear wrote:
teleporting bunkers!

That doesn't sound like siege warfare to me.

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