I'm going to try and collate a list of all the recent internal and external balance proposals, so we can look at them all together.

I think this is the current list of proposals on the table in one form or another:

NERFS:


BUFFS:


All other current NetEA changes to stand.



Post if I've missed anything...

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minor point: is the warhound change now just for the imperial version? When you brought it up, I recall it being warhounds and chaos equivalents.

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That's down to the community to decide, not me. :-)

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Possibly list the alternative changes for Warhound
- change the Warhound loadout to a shorter-ranged weapon.
- introduce a 0-1 cap
- introduce a ban on singletons altogether (though this is possibly not a popular suggestion)

Also Marauders Buffs and alternatives

and possibly changes suggested by dptdexys:-
- increase TBolts cost,
- increase Scouts cost,

And Land Raider variants

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So it seems that the only formations that are ok are Whirlwinds, Devestators and Assaults (and if everything else is wrong, how can these be correct )

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Hey Dobbsy I can hear you grinding your teeth from the other side of the globe

Obviously we need to go cerfully here - step by step. And I am with Yme Loc on this. Revise the ATSKNF rule to remove the half blast marker rule, and revise the Warhound critical to something a lot more meaningfull.

Ah, I forgot those, I haved edited them in.


IIRC Hena's already made up his mind on those.

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Which just goes to show how widespread opinions can be. Because I don't like Whirlwinds as is (don't know a fix that I'd be comfortable with), and Assaults are overpriced/undereffective (comparison to Bike Squads) when not used in conjunction with Thunderhawks.

So that leaves Devastators. Woot! Anyone have a legitimate problem with Devastators, so we can call it a clean sweep?

Morgan Vening

You don't like Whirlwinds? Really?

Devs are actually fine.

Personally, I think a lot of the list's problems would be solved by moving away from increments of 25. It'd give us a little more flexibility to work with.

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That was something I was going to suggest a couple of days ago, but forgot to.

Best way to figure out if the Marine list was internally and externally balanced, was to remove the crutch. As discussed in the Warhound thread, is the Warhound taken because it's too cheap, or because it's role in the list can't be accomplished any other way. That people were still saying they'd consider them at 400pts indicates the latter. Remove it in the short term, and see.


It's not something I can put my finger on. I don't consider them crap, but any builds I'd make would invariably neglect them in favor of something else. I think, for the most part, it's underutilized potential, and with opponents tending to play deepstrike assault, or long range artillery, mine tend to die without firing a meaningful shot.

As others are discussing in the other thread, I tend to prefer Marauders for the role. Marines should be capable of neutralizing heavy flak, and then Marauders just seem to be a less vulnerable buy.

Morgan Vening

Whirlwinds are an option, not everyone uses them but they can appear in a list. They are 2nd string to warhounds though as the latter provide a deployment zone strike. Definatively better off compared to Assault marines! For laughs I might list all the marine units and the complaints against each!

Since this is a "Catch all" thread:
Two thoughts, one my own and another shamelessly ripped off from Dave:
1) Teleporters and t-hawks come from one place (fluff-wise): strike cruisers, right? You could require taking a strike cruiser in order to take these two formations; or
2) make T-hawks more expensive, as you need these for air assault lists. Rather than fiddle with the cost of all the units that go inside them. (this is the one I ripped off)

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Just to say thawks could take off from airfields close to the front line.

Make people pay for an airfield, then?

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I agree that Teleport makes no sense for Terminators if there is no Spacecraft present.

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Smaller space craft such as an Escort... big enough to have a teleport array, not large enough that its weapons can have a discernable affect at Epic scale.

Tadaaah.

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Even the smallest Space Marine spaceship (Rapid Strike Vessels as the Gladius for example) has enough firepower to have an effect in Epic.
Or at least should. The actual firepower of ANY spaceship in Epic is laughable compared to "be able to level whole cities and/or continents" as often quoted in fluff (even more laughable in Wh40k).

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