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Raven Guard 1.X
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=19195		 Page 1 of 9
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Raven Guard 1.X
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1.2 posted

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Author:  Dave [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
Some quick housekeeping and two questions:

The Sniper upgrade mentions Heavy Scouts.

The Razorback upgrade: "each for Razorback"?

What's allowed to purchase the Planetfall upgrade? Just Land Speeder formations? Or can RG Assault and Tactical LS upgrades also get it so they can planetfall with the formation in Caesti?

Also, any reason why the Caestus' FF doesn't match it's shooting? Given it can have frag launchers and meltas are meant to do better at shorter range I think it could be 4+.
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
Downloaded. Will read over lunchtime tomorrow

Really nice presentation - good choice of pics and their placement from an initial quick look.
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
Dave wrote:
The Sniper upgrade mentions Heavy Scouts.

The Razorback upgrade: "each for Razorback"?

fixed

Quote:
What's allowed to purchase the Planetfall upgrade? Just Land Speeder formations? Or can RG Assault and Tactical LS upgrades also get it so they can planetfall with the formation in Caesti?

That's the intent, but you're correct that it doesn't say that. Any suggestions on how to designate? I'm thinking put it in the Land Speeder upgrade langauge like this:
Quote:
Add two units of the same type from the following list: Land Speeder, Land Speeder Tornado, Land Speeder Typhoon, Land Speeder Tempest (i.e. 2 Land Speeders, 2 Land Speeder Tornadoes, etc..). Land Speeders taken under this upgrade have the Planetfall ability.
Author:  Dave [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
Ya that works, I like it. I also think it's clear enough without the part in parenthesis but that's minor.

I'll have to go back and read the language for planetfalling WEs but does this mean that a formation with LS upgrades can deploy from a THawk as well? My gut says no as the whole formation isn't in the THawk.
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
Dave wrote:
I'll have to go back and read the language for planetfalling WEs but does this mean that a formation with LS upgrades can deploy from a THawk as well?

They wouldn't be deploying "from" the THawk, but as long as the whole formation has planetfall ability (or is transported in a planetfall unit) they should be able to planetfall as a formation.
Author:  Dave [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
Alright. That will make for a weird situation involving overwatch though. Namely, only the disembarking troops are valid OW targets. So hits wouldn't be allocated to the speeders?
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
Dave wrote:
Alright. That will make for a weird situation involving overwatch though. Namely, only the disembarking troops are valid OW targets. So hits wouldn't be allocated to the speeders?

The formation is targeted, not the individual units.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
Personally I would avoid that situation - surely speeder deployment is float down to a certain altitude then hits the burners for an evasive run to the entry point? Whereas drop pods and landing craft have struck me as straight ballistic entry vehicles - in other words wouldn't maintain coherency on the way down!

Only quibble I have from a mathshammer point of view is the Tempest looks superior to the typhoon. Tempest sustain/advance/double hits - 1 1/6AP or 1AT / 5/6AP or 4/6AT / 3/6AP or 2/6AT all with AA! vs 1 2/6AP or 1 mixed AP/AT / 1AP or 4/6 mixed AP/AT / 4/6AP or 2/6 mixed AP/AT.
Similar firepower but the AA is a big boost for the tempest. If points are sacrosanct maybe drop the tempest move to 30cm? Its a heavier best after all.

Only other suggestion is that for the guerrilla warfare aspect adding in the Gladius Class Frigate as a spaceship option. Its the most numerous marine vessel and transports small formations of marines.
Its stats would be something like spaceship, BP2, transport 8 units, 5 vehicles, 1 thunderhawk. Cost I guess 75 or even 50 points.

Means a small scale drop in support of guerrilla ops is possible and they can still conduct a drop in a small 2000 point game where the cruiser is to much of a gamble.

Otherwise would have to play it to make any comments!
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
The_Real_Chris wrote:
Only quibble I have from a mathshammer point of view is the Tempest looks superior to the typhoon. Tempest sustain/advance/double hits - 1 1/6AP or 1AT / 5/6AP or 4/6AT / 3/6AP or 2/6AT all with AA! vs 1 2/6AP or 1 mixed AP/AT / 1AP or 4/6 mixed AP/AT / 4/6AP or 2/6 mixed AP/AT.
Similar firepower but the AA is a big boost for the tempest. If points are sacrosanct maybe drop the tempest move to 30cm? Its a heavier best after all.

Fair point, but my experience with 30cm AA is that it's a token ability and the Tempest does lose Scout ability as an off-set (I'm aware this gives a 1-Tempest min-max option to the formation to retain almost all the Scout advantages and gain the token AA). I'd like to test it as-is.

Quote:
Only other suggestion is that for the guerrilla warfare aspect adding in the Gladius Class Frigate as a spaceship option. Its the most numerous marine vessel and transports small formations of marines.
Its stats would be something like spaceship, BP2, transport 8 units, 5 vehicles, 1 thunderhawk. Cost I guess 75 or even 50 points.

Now that is a super cool idea.
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
I like this list - Nice and simple. Great work neal!

One observation - If Dreadnoughts are meant to be rare, why allow no less than 3 formations to take up to 2 each?

Why not just limit the Dreadnought upgrade to 1 dreadnought?
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
I like the look of the list. Most of the units seem balanced, and the "speed first, heavy firepower never" thing seems like a good compromise.

Only concern I have is the sheer number of scatter rolls that can (will?) likely result, due to the Planetfall rules. Infantry aren't so bad, as each Drop Pod scatters once, possible reroll for DFA. But the Speeders, each UNIT roll separately, and each potentially getting a reroll.

With a large enough spaceborne force, it's up to 20+ rolls, 3 dice at a time, with a decision needed to reroll or not after each, so batch rolling isn't even an option.

Any chance of making a "Land Speeder Drop Pod" type special rule, so that each formation just rolls once? Especially given that as Speeders have Scout they're not likely to be out of coherency, and with the reroll you'll end up in a similar position a good portion of the time.

I can see a Spacecraft activation taking a looooong time, is all.

Morgan Vening
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
I would second the current speeder special rule being expanded to scatter the first speeder, place the rest. Or perhaps stating they scatter like the chaos drop pod thingies? (Which I believe simply states they don't scatter - would differentiate the speeders way of planetfalling as well.)
Author:  Dobbsy [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
Neal, this doesn't look anything like the Thousand Sons unit blurbs... ;) :D:D
Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Raven Guard 1.X
Dobbsy wrote:
Neal, this doesn't look anything like the Thousand Sons unit blurbs... ;) :D:D

But it's so shiny... 8)
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