Tactical Command
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Thunderfire Cannon
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=16994		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  jasca [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
I noticed that Space Marines have Thunderfire Cannon in warhammer 40,000. So I thought that Epic scale Space Marines need it also.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_C....627.jpg


I have thinking something like this:

Type / Speed / Armour / cc / ff
Infantry / 15cm / ? / ? / ?

Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Thunderfire Cannon / ? / ? / ?


Space Marine Upgrades
Thunderfire Cannon / Add one or two Thunderfire Cannons / ? points each

Tactical Detachments, Devastator Detachments and Terminator Detachments may include the Thunderfire Cannon upgrade.


What you think?
Author:  Man of kent [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
I usually argue that there is little need for codex creep from 40k seeping into epic, and - after all - the thunder fire cannon is just a bring back from the dead version of a weapon that used to be called the Thudd Gun back in 2nd Ed...

However, there's nothing to stop anyone who wants to include them (and i reckon they'd make fabulous epic scaled models!) from doing so  :)   My personal opinion on the above would be to NOT give them to terminators...maybe not even the tacticals...devastators; sure thing :-)

Armour: 4+
FF: 4/5+
CC: 4/5+

Not sure on the stats of the gun but i'd be tempted to give it a +1 Extra Attack in Close Combat; it is crewed by a rah hard techmarine!

In essence i see it as the infantry version of the dreadnought upgrade.
Author:  zombocom [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
Keep new units to varient lists.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
I could see an Imperial Fists list with Thunderfire Cannons and trenchworks... but no Thunderhawks.
Author:  vytzka [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
I don't like it in 40k and I don't want it in Epic. It's a static, fragile artillery piece. That's Imperial Guard style, not that of Adeptus Astartes.

Now, put it on a Rhino chassis and we could talk.
Author:  zombocom [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
Given that the Imperial Fists are a fairly static, siege-focused army, it would seem to fit best in a list dedicated to them.
Author:  frogbear [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 24 2009, 23:02 )

I could see an Imperial Fists list with Thunderfire Cannons and trenchworks... but no Thunderhawks.

Nnnoooooo!    :_(

My plans to paint one for my Imp Fists are crushed I tell ya, crushed!

:_(
Author:  Man of kent [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
But if a new player DID want to mess around with the idea for fun guys?

We're not talking epic development here but talking to a new forum member who wants to try something out and will get a better idea of how the game works and is developed  :)
Author:  Fortis [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
No! No one is allowed to have any fun with their own rules, least of all new players! It will destroy the rules development effort!!! :p

Seriously though, something like:

Move: 15cm
Armour: 4+
FF: 5+
CC: 5+

With a weapon along the lines of:
60cm 3BP Ignore Cover

And perhaps instead of adding him to existing formations give him a formation of servitors to sit in (none of the current formations seem to "fit" to me). Same stats and weapons as scouts but without scout and infiltrator.

Problem is giving them an appropriate size without making the barrage too powerful (probably shouldn't have more then one gun at that strength in a formation) but without making the unit too cheap.

If it were 4 servitor bases and a thunderfire it should probably be around 200 worth but I'm just thinking it might make whirlwinds a bit redundant... although these don't have indirect...
Author:  arkturas [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
I think the best bet for coming up with rules for what is essentially an artillery piece is look at what the stats for other artillery is in Epic particularly the gun part.

Eldar Nightspinner 45cm/1BP/Disrupt,Indirect
Eldar Voidspinner 60cm/3BP/Disrupt,Indirect
SM Whirlwind 45cm/1BP/Indirect
IG Manticore 120cm/2BP/Disrupt,Slow,Indirect
IG Bombard 120cm/AT4+or1BP/Indirect
IG Basilisk 45cm/2BP/Ignore,Slow,Indirect
IG Griffon 30cm/1BP
Squat Rapier 45cm/AP6+,AT4+
Squat Tarantula 45cm/AP5+,AT5+
Squat Thudd Gun 45cm/AP4+,AT6+/Indirect
Squat Mole Mortar 45cm/1BP/Indirect(Indirect firing is also Disrupt)
Squat Doomsday Cannon 120cm/3BP/Indirect,Macro (Super Heavy only)
Titan Rocket Launcher 60cm/3BP (Titan weapon)

I would say acknowledging SM higher costs you're looking at ~75pts per 1BP. Personally I can't see the Thunderfire getting more than 1BP and hence fielded in a formation of 3-4. It may only be something along the lines of AP/AT value with a long range or indirect option. Does the Thunderfire rank up with Super Heavy and Titan weapons?
Author:  Fortis [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
Yeah... on revision probably not a good idea giving a formations worth of firepower to a single artillery piece. I just don't like the concept of having a formation of thunderfires... doesn't sit well with me, so I was trying to figure out a way to make them functional as singles embedded within a unit.
Author:  Man of kent [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
As +1/2 thunderfires to a formation of devastators?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
What about 1BP, but with ignores cover?

IIRC they can ignore cover if they want to in 40k.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
Stats would be something like this:

Space Marine Thunderfire Cannon
Type Move Armor Firefight CloseCombat
Infantry 10cm 6+ FF5+ CC6+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Thunderer 60cm 1BP IgnoreCover, Disrupt

Formation:
Thunderfire Defence Battery
4 Thunderfire Cannons 275 points
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Thunderfire Cannon
As they're infantry (able to gain cover saves and -1 to hit by being in a building) I'd start a formation of 4 at 325-350pts with those stats, BL.
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