Something new and unexpected

It's only a draft and probably needs some corrections. I also need to know what the range of a Cerberus Launcher on a Land Speeder Storm is.

Anyway, have a look and see what you think. Please discuss.

Cheers all.
EDIT: updated to v0.2.1 with minor changes inc. the missing Devastator reference

EDIT: Updated to v0.2 with a few changes listed in red.

So not a candidate for a 15k force then?

joking aside I like the theme of the list looks good

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Puhh....

The Cerberus Launcher have a Range of 18 inches in 40K. Maybe 15 cm or you give the Land speeder FF+4.

hmmm....

i miss the Devestators in your list.

I would not give Tac Teams MW-Attacks because i dont understand why they should have them. Krak Granades are a typical armament für Space Marines Tactical Troops. Every Chapter use them.

Instead give the salvation Teams Melta Bombs/Krak Granades. Their job is to infiltrate Hive Ships und some Meltabombs in the pocket are very useful.

With 5 Salvation Teams with +4 MW CC Attacks and Teleport you have enough Options to destroy a lot of armoured Elements. With that there is no need for Titans.

Really, why have almost every Marine Chapter Allied Admech Titan Support..even a 2 Companies crippled Chapter?

Savation Teams are Scouts, so they just wear Scout Armour (+5).

And why have every Chapter Imperial Navy Aircraft Support? Space Marines have their own Aircraft..the Stomtalon Gunship. Why not use it?

The Heart of Cronus is a Battle Barge.. Battle Barge have 14BP and costs 350 Points.
I would change the Name of the Fortress-monastery to "The Heart of Cronus". The Scythes of the Emperor have only this one.

A special Anti-Tyranid Rule would be nice..the whole Fluff is full of their Hate against Tyranids...



What do you think?

I agree with salvation team armor and using melta grenades.

The storm talon and THawk bomber would be a better thematic fit for air power.

Lets ditch titans. The salvation squads are enough and what we should be focused on I feel.

the anti-nid rule shouldn't be part of the list. Lists are not / should not be tailored to specific opponents rule wise. That being said, an optional scenario specifically made for Nid v SotE would be awesome. I'm sorry but the fact we still have only the GTS is rather sad (and why I thought Chromas project was so great).

I really like this list and it is the type of flipping the script I like to see.

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MW Krak Grenades is utterly ludicrous, remove it! All SMs carry krak grenades as part of their standard equipment.

If you're doing Scythes they should specialise in killing tyranids. 40k Scythes would have preferred enemy: tyranids and a similar direction should be gone here. Give all the non-scout infantry a special rule that their CC and FF values are one higher than normal when fighting tyranids. It's a big risk trying to engage tyranids in any case, particularly without heavier troops or vehicles, so I think the list would still be balanced with it against tyranids.

I don't like the idea of a Razorback formation, it's a dedicated transport and should stay that way. Preds and Vindicators will do fine for them and if that leaves them more limited options than regular SMs then tough, that's the way they should be.

Their flagship is a battle barge, don't invent new rules for it! As per the 40k wiki: "the Scythes of the Emperor Chapter now navigate through space on board their last starship and mobile fortress-monastery, the battle barge called The Heart of Sotha."

Drop Vindicators to 0-2 than normal. 0-4 allows for big, hard to break formations and goes against what the Scythes are meant to use. According to their wiki they the chapter 'generally organises small, mobile strike forces'. Lots of small formations and a high activation army, with formations easy to break and retreat to fight another day, that should be the way they fight.

The Scythes only have the one company of full SMs, which you have made mandatory. Additional Salvation Teams must therefore be scouts and should have 5+ scout armour (scouts haven't got the full implants to wear power armour yet).

Land Speeder Storm's Cerebus Launcher should be 15cm AP6+ Disrupt IMO. It has 'anti-sensory munitions that blind and disorient the foe', in the 40k rules this has a blind special rule, large blast template but only strength 2 in 40k, so not very killy. AP6+ disrupt is plenty good enough for 25 points anyway (it compares favourably to a twin HB Razorback say, higher would be OTT). Also Storms have the option to transport Salvation Teams in their notes, but this isn't currently an upgrade allowed in the list?

Fine with adding Predators as upgrades, but they should really cost 75 for 1 125 for 2. 50 each is too cheap!

Actually, the Cerebus launcher should not be a ranged attack at all, it's used to disorient the enemy to allow the scouts to assault more effectively. I'd say it should just be a First Strike FF attack

and I agree that giving tac-marines a MW attack is pretty much crazy, and that we should look at the marine fighter craft options instead of using navy and titan support

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Fair enough. All SotE Tacs are Tyranic War Veterans so I based them off the UM version who apparently use Krak grenades in a specific way. I can change it.


I like the idea as I couldn't figure what to give them to make them a little more punchy.


Because like it or not this game is not just about one Chapter fighting on its own. Why can't SotE marry up with a Titan to fight a big war? Also, people like Titans.... This goes for the Air allies as well.


I will change this.

SotE is a smashed Chapter in rebuild. I highly doubt they have access to all the new gear. They don’t even have Terminator armour....

As you say, it’s a fortress-monastery and I felt the removal of the Slow and Steady from a Battle Barge required a slight downgrade in its firepower for a trade-off. I could imagine a vessel owned by a run-down Chapter to have issues with both repair and supply of ammo stores etc. It also brings a bit more flavour to the list.
Naming the vessel is not a facet of Epic due to abstraction.



I did debate this but in the end the SotE still fight against all types of enemies, they just engage Tyranids when the chance arises.
I suppose a rule versus Tyranids could work, I just think it’s adding a rule for minimal effect across the game given the majority of games won’t be played vs Tyranids. I think a house rule might work better for that purpose.


I will, perhaps, if you stop talking to people rudely when discussing what you think about a list.... Fair?


See my above reply. I can see the reasoning though. Will mull it over.


I do see your point. Having no vehicle heavier than a Rhino in their arsenal I feel a use of rhino-chassis vehicles would be employed ad-hoc by a Chapter with less troops. It’s something different. We’ll see how it goes. Bare with me for trialling perhaps...?


Again, the words “fortress-monastery” in your sentence sort of explains this. I can’t really call it a Battle Barge if it’s not quite the same thing and it adds some character.


Good idea. I will sort this out.


I will change this. Thanks

Not a bad idea. I might go this way rather than a 6+Disrupt attack. It's kind of like the Banshee mask in this respect. Cheers

True but the one thing they did get away with was their thunderhawks (in fact that's what 100% of the survivors actually got away in ). However Navy Airpower vs Astartes is less a deal in the end. Perhaps my bias for pure marine lists is showing here.


This makes a whole lot of sense and makes them a very very nice unit. Good bit of extraploation from the fluff (I wasn't really aware of what that thing did in 40k)

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I am in the camp with no titans.

Naval air support, I agree with. Marine aircraft are meant to get them on the ground. I would find it hard to believe the large capital ship floats around without air cover.

Otherwise, I am interested in trying it out.

Cheers

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This can ve a really cool list to use!

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Sorry if I came across as rude! No offense to you was intended. I just found the idea ludicrous when all SMs have krak grenades.


This makes a whole lot of sense and makes them a very very nice unit. Good bit of extraploation from the fluff (I wasn't really aware of what that thing did in 40k)[/quote]
In the 5th ed codex the Cerebus just gave some kind of boost to scouts assaulting. That has changed and in the current codex it is instead a proper ranged weapon, which blinds and stuns the enemy more than kills them.

Disrupt is much more fitting for the Storm than first strike. To quote some of the background for the LS Storm: ''The vehicle's Cerebus launcher is used to sow confusion amongst enemy troops by firing a range of disruptive munitions while it's jamming beacon plays havoc with enemy command and control.' Sounds like a very good candidate to have disrupt to me.

It's got a low range (18" in 40k) but some other things that have that or less range are represented by 15cm shooting in epic e.g. heavy flamers or tau pulse carbines.

If an anti-tyranid rule would be suggested, I'd recommend you to dig out Lord Inquisitor's old Daemonhunter rule. Grey Knight weapons denied Invulnerable saves, I believe, but daemons were continually added to the daemon pool. It was justified by the fact that if Grey Knights fought Chaos, it would be a major daemon incursion. The rule's purpose was to be true to the background and add to the game without changing the balance. making a balanced army list and then give them a boon if they face one particular enemy does not sit well with me.

/fredmans

Yes, but the str2 blind effect of the Cerebus is still primarily used to drop initiative and prevent overwatch shots from killing the scouts as they charge into the fight. It's still essentially a flashbang grenade, and is used to support an Engagement role, not a Sustained one.

Disrupt fits, but I think First Strike fits better. I also think that First Strike makes the unit more interesting, and well suited to its combat role (it also meshes well with regular land speeders, whose primary role is supporting fire in engagements)


I'm not that familiar with the Scythes backstory, do they really only have 2 thunderhawks left? without MW tac marines, the thunderhawk balance thing is no longer a big threat, and I'm generally not a fan of hard limits, I'd much prefer (cue big surprise) that they simply be moved to the air support section of the list.

I'm also a little unclear about the requirements of the list building, but overall, this seems pretty close to how I'd write a marine list (My list would probably have terminators rather than salvation squads, though I understand there is specific background reasons against that here, I'd have storm talons instead of thunderbolts, but reliance on tactical formations and scouts with land speeder storms is pretty much exactly what I'd like to see in a marine list)

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I think you're misinterpreting the situation here. A fortress-monastry doesn't refer to a type of spacecraft rather it refers to a chapter's home and centre of supplies, worship, ect. Most often it's a a great big fortress on a planet. Fleet based chapters use a large ship, often a battle barge or something larger again (such as the Lamenter's Chapter Barque, DA's Rock, IF Phalanx, ect). After Sotha was destroyed by those pesky tyranids the Scythe's fortress monastry is now stated to be a battle barge and battle barges are known and have epic stats already. If you particularly wanted to I wouldn't have a problem with it having less weapon ability and being slightly cheaper than a normal battle barge, due to damage, but if normal battle barge's can't be used till turn 3 I don't think their battered battle barge should be much faster to use.

Good idea with the list by the way Dobbsy! It sounds interesting and should play differently. Reading their 40k wiki entry I see they've had some new fiction written about them, going into more detail and suggesting they're rebuilding (before I believed it was suggested they were doomed to extinction). Did you read this and it inspired you to do the list?

Personally I don't mind them having titans and aircraft (particularly with the single Warhound option removed). To throw a left-field idea in though: perhaps have it so that the list can choose to field aircraft OR titans, but not both? The surviving Scythes are fighting out in the devestated regions by the hive fleets, and might have less organised support available than other chapters.