Tactical Command
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Epic in the Heresy
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=14708
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Author:  Simulated Knave [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Epic in the Heresy

As a cunning plan to get the locals into Epic, I've been planning on starting a Horus Heresy era campaign.  Epic is better suited to it than regular 40K for a number of reasons - it accommodates scale better, it's at least moderately cheaper, and decent painting can be as simple as a night with a spray gun and a detail brush.  

But one of the problems is that the marines of the Heresy weren't quite the same as normal marines.  And thus I present the following:

A tentative list:

Legion Line Company - 330
8 Tactical Bases.  Upgrades as follows: Land Raiders, Rhinos, Vindicator, Drop Pods, Dreadnought, Devastators, Assault Marines, Commander, Melee Combatants.  

Legion Armoured Company - Cost of Vehicles
4-8 Vehicles.  May be either Land Raiders or Predators, at 100 points and 75 points each respectively.  Upgrades as follows: Vindicators, Commander.  

Legion Bike Company - 330
8 Bike Bases.  Upgrades as follows: Commander, Jetbikes, Grav-Attack.  

* * *

Legion Terminator Detachment - 350
4 Terminator Bases.  Upgrades as follows: Commander, Dreadnought, Drop Pods, Land Raiders, Vindicator.  

Legion Tactical Detachment - 300
Six Tactical Bases with Rhinos.  Upgrades as follows: Commander, Dreadnought, Vindicator, Drop Pods, Land Raiders, Melee Combatants.  

Legion Assault Detachment - 175
4 Assault Bases.  Upgrades as follows: Commander, Vindicator, Grav-Attack.  

Legion Devastator Detachment - 250
4 Devastator Bases with Rhinos.  Upgrades as follows: Commander, Drop Pods, Land Raiders.  

Legion Jetbike Detachment
4 Jetbike Bases.  Upgrades as follows: Commander, Grav-Attack, Landspeeder.  

Legion Bike Detachment - 200
5 Bike Bases.  Upgrades as follows: Commander, Grav-Attack.  

Legion Landspeeder Detachment - Standard Price
4 Landspeeders.  Upgrades as follows: None.  

Legion Reconaissance Detachment - 220
4 Tactical Bases, each with Scout.  Upgrades as follows: Drop Pods, Rhinos.  

Predator Detachment - 275
4 Predators.  Upgrades as follows: Commander, Vindicator.  

Land Raider Detachment - 350
4 Land Raiders.  Upgrades as follows: Commander, Vindicator.  

Whirlwind Detachment - 300
4 Whirlwinds.  Upgrades as follows: Commander

Legion Support Detachment - Cost of Vehicles
1-3 Legion Superheavies at the points costs listed: 275 points per Decimator, ??? per Fellblade.  

* * *

Thunderhawk - Standard Price
One Thunderhawk Gunship or Thunderhawk Transporter

Landing Craft - Standard Price
One Landing Craft

* * *

Murder-class Cruiser - Standard Price

Despoiler-class Battleship - Standard Price

Thunderbolt Fighter - Standard Price

Marauder Bomber - 250

For each Legion Company, you must take one other Detachment.  You may not have more than twice as many Detachments as you do companies.

Note: Upon the occasion of the Heresy, the inspirational prescence of the Warmaster and the blessings of the Chaos Gods make the Chaos Space Marines just as fearless as any Loyalist.  All Space Marine Legions use the "And They Shall Know No Fear" rules.  

Note: The Melee Specialists upgrade replaces one unit's bolters with bolt pistols and close combat weapons, thus improving their CC to 3+ and reducing their FF to 5+.  It costs -5 points.  It can be taken once for each unit in the formation.  

* * *

The points costs of just about everything that originated in the Black Legion list have been increased to account (more or less) for ATSKNF.  Decimator got +50 points because you'd figure a War Engine'd benefit even more than average.  Infantry got +50%.  

The hope is that the company mechanic will encourage a bit more of the "big sweeping formation" style which seems appropriate to the scale of heresy-era battles.  It also will hopefully guide people toward armies that are vaguely appropriate (there will also likely be a "50% of all this army's companies must be X mechanic so as to prevent the mighty White Scars Armored Legion).  

Grav Attack Statistics are to be determined later, and cost to be determined from that.  

I'm a little worried Melee Specialists is overpriced.  OTOH, it's rather necessary to include it - otherwise the BA and WE are high and dry, plus most Heresy assault troops didn't have jetpacks.  

Is there anywhere I should look on the site for particular guidance or inspiration?  

Thoughts, criticism or unqualified praise?  Am I missing anything?  Do I have anything grossly unsuitable or grossly under/overcosted?  Am I mad?

Author:  Legion 4 [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Epic in the Heresy

SM1 was during the Heresy, and their SM Lists/TO&Es are the best G/W has come up with, IMO ... We still use them ...  8v)

Author:  Man of kent [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Epic in the Heresy

A common comment here on Taccomms is "do what works for you", and i see no reason why - between a group of friends - this wouldn't work; knock yrselves out!

Author:  daemonkin [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Epic in the Heresy

Check out my website - thousand-sons.co.uk. We have been using the Horus Heresy Codex produced by Bell of Lost Souls as a guide to mix up Epic, BFG, Aeronautica and 40K to play heresy era games.

All the rules we have used are available to download in the rules section - 1 of which is the Heresy era Space Marine list made up by one of the members on this board and tailored by me.

Hope you find it helpfull.

D.

Author:  The Red Sorcerer [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic in the Heresy

We actually had a bit of discussion about this on the site around 5 months ago, I imagine the relevant threads would be helpful - here and here. One of the potential problems is balancing large formations with ATSKNF, and how to make the 'Traitor' list different from the Loyalists. Of course, you could use the same for both but that means you wouldn't get to use demons, which seems hugely out of character for the Heresy seeing as we know demons were used extensively in the latter stages. Of course, if you are intending to stick with purely marine vs marine battles balancing the list is less of an issue...

Seems a shame we never really got anywhere with it. The Heresy is pretty much the most definitively 'epic' conflict in the 40K universe so seems the perfect focus for Epic lists or a supplement of some kind.

Author:  daemonkin [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic in the Heresy

An idea I had for the ATSKNF problem was keeping it on loyalists and giving traitors free daemonic pact and free daemons each turn. No idea how balanced this is since we put our campaign on hold to play a bloodbowl league.

We're getting back to it after the first finals tomorrow night.

D.

Author:  Legion 4 [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic in the Heresy

Quote: (Man of kent @ 28 Jan. 2009, 08:32 )

A common comment here on Taccomms is "do what works for you", and i see no reason why - between a group of friends - this wouldn't work; knock yrselves out!

It's nice to be quoted !! :;):   DWWFY !!   :))   Yes, that is one of my gaming principles ... Play the game as you & your crew like !  G/W ain't going to send the =][= to purge your group of renagade/Heretic Gamers !  :blues:  I've always played by DWWFY ...  8v)




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