Still haven't played a game with RG yet, but I'm hoping to soon.

I've made up three 3000-pt army lists and would appreciate critique fom experienced players:
LIST 1
Cruiser (200)
Tactical Assault + SC (325)
Commandos + chaplain (250)
Commandos (200)
Commandos + Chaplain (250)
Scout-snipers + assault ram (300)
Scout-snipers + assault ram (300)
Scout-snipers (200)
Scout-snipers (200)
Assault troops (175)
Thunderhawk (200)
Terminators + chaplain (400)

LIST 2
2 Warhound titans (500)
Tactical assault + SC (325)
Scout-sniper + assault ram (300)
Scout-sniper + assault ram (300)
Commandos (200)
Terminators + chaplain (400)
Thunderhawk (200)
Thunderhawk (200)
Landspeeders (200)
Landspeeders (200)
Thunderbolt fighters (175)

LIST 3 (air assault)
Cruiser (200)
Terminators + SC (450)
Terminators (350)
Terminators (350)
Commandos (200)
Commandos (200)
Commandos (200)
Thunderhawk (200)
Thunderhawk (200)
Thunderhawk (200)
Land speeders + planet fall (225)
Land speeders + planet fall (225)

Thoughts?

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So, I noticed that the version in the compendium is significantly different than the one at the beginning of this thread. What happened?

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So... The silence is a bit deafening after a couple weeks. Was there any play tests to justify adding armor into the list between the one posted here and that in the compendium?

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

I'd only been using this version until your comment. I do recall some streamlining happening at the time of compendium review but I can't recall the raven guard being modified. I also found the compendium list for thousand sons to be different so maybe both of neals' lists got an upgrade and he never updated the WIP lists on here?

My play testing has ground to a halt lately and I struggled with making the raven guard look good so they went into a tub of simple green and that was the end of play testing raven guard. Given the 30k interest of late though it might be time to revisit them.

What models are people using for commandos? I don't have any marines without jump packs that carry CCW. I guess I could use normal tacticals with "assault" markings and leave off any heavy weapons?

If you are interested: The Chapter Tactics in the new Codex give the RavenGuard some new abilities:
Every Infantry unit (apart from bulky ones like Terminators and Bikes)has Scout (as Epic Scout). They also have Stealth in the first turn (improved cover save).

Assault Marines can move faster and in the first round of colse-combat also hit harder. Infiltrators or 35cm move in Epic would reflect that.

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@ BL Yeah I'm loving the new chapter traits in 40k especially for raven guard.

However, if I was going to use that as a basis for change in epic I'd go for infiltrator on the tacticals and devs and boost speed on the assaults. You could also scrap the commandos.

Per conversations I have had with Dave, I believe that Neal's posted list at the start of this thread is the most 'official' version out there, and is what I have been going by to build a RG army: Infantry-heavy, little ranged firepower, zero armor.

I do have a bunch of unpainted armor that I had expected to do up in blue for my Ultramarines, but if I can include them in a RG army I'd prefer to know now.

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Just because your Marines are painted Raven Guard doesn't mean you can't go and play the codex list (because you want to be all air mobile assault) and the next game get your heavy tank fix from using the Scions of Iron list. Paint what you want.

So this list is more "current" than what's in the compendium? [grumbles]

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I was quite involved in the design of this version of the list so I might be able to answer some of the questions raised.

This list is supposed to represent the Raven Guard in an offensive capacity. They are noted in the fluff for leaving behind their heavier toys and relying on scouting elements. This list is intended as a kind of marine "airborne" list if you will, similar to the Elysians.

I think Neal included in the design notes for this list that if you wanted to use the list in a different kind of capacity of use the codex list. We didn't want to stop people from using a armored Raven Guard force or any other iteration of Raven Guard.

It is also important to note that this list was not really intended to purely represent the Raven Guard chapter but instead all marine chapters for players who wanted that "airborne" feel for their games.

The design intent behind all this was that the codex list is flexible enough to represent almost all marine chapters (Space Wolves and Black Templars withstanding who really are different, though I don't think the Black Templar list really reflects the chapter all that well) so in order to enforce a very different feel in the list Neal enforced heavy restrictions on list selection. I think he was rather successful. The list feels like a very elite, small marine force which can have more trouble than usual dealing with heavily armored formations.

Played my first game with RG tonight (Jstr19, I didn't read your post until I got home after the game so your notes had no bearing on the list I wrote up)

I used the RG list at the top of his thread, so no armor or big, heavy units, but I also didnt planetfall anything and used as mostly ground-pounding.

Unfortunately, I really couldnt judge all that much how the army did because a statistically unlikely event happened toward the start of the game - a Thunderhawk full of assault marines was shot down on approach so that was 550 points gone just like that --- it was awesome!!! At that point I knew I would play the game out, but I really couldn't expect to win. And I didn't. By the end of turn 3 most everything was broken and running.

I took two units of sniper-scouts and was disappointed they didn't perform better, but I really can't expect to win my first game with a brand new army.

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Now that I've had some time to think about last night's game:

Jstr19, thanks for for post above. It really does seem like the list here in the thread is meant for air assault lists. When I played commandos last night, they had to move too far and were too few in number to do much other than get shot up, but if you had a unit like that drop into the enemy lines right at the start of the game and (probably) be in range to engage right away, I can see how they would be much more effective.

Also, not having any units with any real ranged firepower certainly hurt me. Between the commandos, tactical assault, and scout-sniper formations, I had just a few AP-only ranged shots. And taking anything other than shots into the open...well, the sniper fire was good for laying blast markers, but didn't do all that much else. I had great hopes that I would have scout-snipers running all over the board, taking out characters left and right, but it didn't turn out that way. I'm hoping they will prove more effective in future games.

I'm not complaining at all about how the game went, but I agree that the list really is best-used for mobile air assault, which is not always how I want to play because it would make me too predictable. I do feel good about the fact, though, that the list in this thread is v 1.2, whereas the list in the 2012 netea army compendium is v 1.2.2. I'll try that list next time.

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Just dropping a quick line-

I've now played a small handful of games with Raven Guard, and even won some of them. Sticking with list at top of the thread, not the compendium list.

Although I'm still a beginner at playing with them, I do have enough experience now that I can talk intelligently about what I feel works and what doesn't work....if anyone wants to have a disciussion.

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I'd love to hear a tactica post from you.

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-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

Mate,

Tell us what you know from your experience with the list. Feedback is the only way lists grow and become accepted into the NETEA world.

Cheers
Aaron

I found they keys for RG to be Mobility and Resilience....but that's the way it is with any SM army, right?

I haven't played yet with drop pods, but Thunderhawk assaults have been key. Taking two t-hawks, one loaded with assault marines + chaplain, and the other with a tactical assault + dreadnaught, allows all kinds of options. Just the threat of having two loaded t-hawks to air assault with can limit what my opponent will do....at least until they activate. Having terminators waiting to teleport in helps too. As long as I am careful about where the air assaults land and where the terminators come in, each should be powerful enough to win each engagement.

The sniper-scouts are very helpful in the overall battle plan, so long as you wait until turn two, to really take advantage of them. I pay the points to make the formations 6 units in size (able to take a bit more punishment and deal out a few more sniper shots), and turn one is all about getting into position for turn two, then on turn two do as much damage as you can with sniper shots and/or ZOCing opponents. With only 5+ armor, they arent very good for initiating firefights, but they are good at giving firefight support to other assaulting units. Get in close enough to take those sniper shots and then be ready toretain and assault with another unit to allow their FF support. The snipers can at he very least drop blast markers on a formation you are planning to assault, and there is a chance you can either take out a character and his MW before the assault hits, or kill enough lightly-armored units to break the unit and freeing up a future assault to hit somewhere else.

Since I haven't done a planet fall deployment yet, I haven't had the chance to drop in commandos in assault rams in an opponent's back lines. Even though assault rams can look scary, if you have to move commandos across the whole battlefield, they can be an awfully expensive way to do it. Rhinos are cheaper and have a comparable move. Yes, they have a shooting attack and can lay down a 1 BP pie plate.....but still, I prefer rhinos.

I originally wasn't a big fan of commandos, but I sure am now. Hitting 3+ in CC, 4+ armor save, and the scout ability to harass enemy formations, makes for an annoyingly tough opponent. The small formation size can limit their resilience, but I tend to be very lucky when it comes to armor saves, so they tend to hang around for me.....but your mileage may vary.

In my first game I took Warhound titans, but I find titans to often be a points sink and not worth it, and every list I make without them ends up with 11 activations....which is enough.

Tactical formations are an option for RG, but I don't really find them to be a great option either. I find the most important roll of rocket launchers in a standard tactical unit is to place a BM on an enemy, and that can be achieved equally by taking a RG tactical assault formation and attaching a hunter - with the bonus of being able to defend against air attacks!

that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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That's not a moon....it's a space station....