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Blood Angels v2.07

 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Quote: (vytzka @ Sep. 28 2009, 15:10 )

I'm not quite sure how to make six assault marines worth 275 points without changing the stats or adding special rules (which should probably be done only as a last resort). You can't make them CC2+ and there's no room in between to make them better in assault!

Maybe give them Walker to give a slight boost? So they can rip up people hiding in buildings and so on.

Adding walker to Assault Marines would be a waste as it would be useless for them as they don't need to take a dangerous terrain test to enter a building.


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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:31 pm 
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Quote: (Rug @ Nov. 26 2009, 10:31 )

Bump.

All this talk about space marine ground pounders has inspired me to put some work into these guys, it would be good to get another version out before the BA codex next year.

Having some better ground-pounding options was definitely a design goal for this list... so let's see...

Quote: 

Assault formation down to 250pts - there are better asssault options than assault marines at this cost!

There have been no complaints about this formation's overpoweredness at 275pts, so I'll say yes here.

Quote: 

Drop Dreads from Devs - BA close support Dreads don't fit the Dev role, plus Furisos in Devs make an uncharacteristically powerful THawk load out!

Could do.

Quote: 

Drop "Fast Attack" upgrade from bikes - big bike formations make uncharacteristically good assault formations!

But bike formations are assault formations. :)

Quote: 

Combine "Bikes" and "Landspeeders" into one "Fast Attack" formation made up of any combination of Bikes and
LS - This would be cool for collecters and buyers, simplify the list, bring logic to the "Fast Attack" upgrade but make little/no difference to the balance.

Makes little difference to balance, but wouldn't this be better for a list like the Dark Angels for their Ravenwing?

Quote: 

Return the Landing Craft to 350pts - a) it's not worth 375pts or over used as it's so difficult to use without overcommiting points and activations, it's also a massive gamble to use vs half good AA ( most Eldar armies). b) The raise allows the continuation of the cheesy "spam Terminators and have a LC BTS" tactic. The LC should not be the marine BTS, your just going to see fewer big ground formations. c) I think the raise is an attack on marine AVs. You don't take an LC with no intention to carry tanks, do we want to discourage the use of marine tanks?

This was a NetEA change, and being as the Codex list seems to have dropped this change, there's no reason to keep it here.

Quote: 

Consider Dread upgrade @ 50pts - if Devs cannot take them Tacs seem like a good and logical parent unit (Termies Teleport and squeeze into THawks, Assaults are fast...), a cheaper Dread might see more Tacs

I've softend on the Tac upgrades as they do need all the help they can get!

How do you feel about just dropping the cost of Tacticals by 25pts?
This is a solution I find myself supporting more and more, for all Marine lists.

The (superior to normal) Dreadnoughts can then stay at 75pts.



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*Must see about scratchbuilding some of the missing Marine models*




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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:26 am 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 26 2009, 12:31 )

Quote: 

Drop "Fast Attack" upgrade from bikes - big bike formations make uncharacteristically good assault formations!

But bike formations are assault formations. :)

They are also the flat out best assault formation. Hell they are better than tacticals. Excellent cheap thawk load out as well, something bigger formations encourages.

Quote: 

Quote: 

Combine "Bikes" and "Landspeeders" into one "Fast Attack" formation made up of any combination of Bikes and
LS - This would be cool for collecters and buyers, simplify the list, bring logic to the "Fast Attack" upgrade but make little/no difference to the balance.

Makes little difference to balance, but wouldn't this be better for a list like the Dark Angels for their Ravenwing?


This is something Bens never liked :)

I must say I used to be a big fan until the 3 speeder 2 bike assault formation was pointed out and this I feel is outside the formations remit and is better for Ravenwing formations.

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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:28 am 
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Quote: (Rug @ Nov. 26 2009, 12:59 )

Doesn't the two separate formations strike you as odd? There is a " Fast Attack" upgrade that combines the two, why not combine the formation too? It gets "scout bikes" (3 LS & 2 Bikes) into the list without having to introduce a new unit type thus helping to keep up with the 28mm game!

Oh and you can take a mixed formation in the sallies as well, but they get away with more as the poor things are so limited :)

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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:25 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ Nov. 28 2009, 04:26 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 26 2009, 12:31 )

Quote: 

Drop "Fast Attack" upgrade from bikes - big bike formations make uncharacteristically good assault formations!

But bike formations are assault formations. :)

They are also the flat out best assault formation. Hell they are better than tacticals. Excellent cheap thawk load out as well, something bigger formations encourages.

Colour me convinced then. :)

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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:08 am 
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There are strange rumours about the upcoming Codex Blood Angels in april (emphasis by me):
Quote: 

Ringer from Dakka has stated to have seen some box cover layout.
Its gonna be a big release with no less than 10 boxes!!

box #1 Exalted: Space Marine, winged jump packs, rapier-like blades, wrist-mounted stormbolters, masks
box #2 Blood Angels Scouts: Scouts, but very post-apocalyptic feeling - like Fallout or Mad Max - chains, close combat weapons, the complete opposite to the generic neat vanilla scouts
box #3 Blood Angel Assault Squad: assault marines with BA regalia
there is a small icon on the right with a Terminator head, Bolter and Rhino silhouette
box #5 and #6: Death Company: another two boxes with jump packs, one black armor, one red armor, bareheaded, banner, storm shields
box #7 Tantalus Lander: kind of flying droppod with wings, land raider front, assault cannons under fuselage
box #8: Victor and Unholt: basic Techmarine and a new creature: a Tech-Hulk (lots of tech-stuff stitched together - right arm is a four barreled cannon)
and there are two boxes with Ultramarine art instead of BloodAngel art
box #9 Venerable Dreadnought
box #10 Predator

Dakka's Reds8n states Fleshtearer fans will love the new codex... stating there will be a Chapter Master Seth of the Flesh Tearers miniature armed with eviscerator... I know my excitement levels have increased somewhat, hearing that much.

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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:14 am 
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That's some serious SQUEEEEEEE material there, BL - though I'm very ambivalent about the new vehicles (Tantalus sounds like a 40k scale Thunderbrick which could be a very unorthodox solution to my complaining about plastic T-hawk ever since Apocalypse hit :grinning: ).

And I'm sorry for not being around much, if someone actually misses me as I'm all about Warmachine Mk2 at the moment. Basically waiting for Blood Angels dex to re-energize me for 40k stuff ^^


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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:34 pm 
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Sounds wretched.

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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:39 pm 
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*shrug*

Let's wait until we see it (and its rules), I guess.

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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:54 pm 
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I don't think the new units will really clash that bad with what we have now, inevitable fluff revisions aside (the less the codex writers acknowledge the existence of James Swallow, the better).

Exalted are VAS by another name, we never had those in Epic and aren't going to start now.

Scouts are Scouts are Scouts, Death Company is Death Company, superficial news only. Tantalus is a Thunderhawk that they weaseled out of making a proper plastic model for. Mega-Servitor monstrosity is best ignored. Absolutus Dreadnought with two buzzsaws is simply a Furioso in Epic scale.

So far, everything fits.


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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:48 am 
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If the rumours are true it might be worthwile to add those Exalted Assault Squads and the Tantalus Lander to the list.

From BOLS:
Quote: 

Force Organization Chart
Blood Angel FOC is divergant from the Ultramarine one:
-Dreadnoughts are heavy support.
-Furioso Dreads with droppods are fast attack.
-Twin scout entries are both elites, but one is scoring.
-Only dedicated ground transport is the Rhino (Razorbacks are out)
-Assault Squad and Tactical Squad are troops.
-Honour Guard can be troops if fielded with Dante.
-Jump pack units are in every FOC category except heavy support and HQ:
--Assault Squad - troops
--Honour Guard - elites
--Exalted - fast attack

Death Company is 0-1 and doesn't need a slot in the FOC

Units Rules
Tantalus Lander is a dedicated transport for everything in the army except tanks, Land Speeders and Exalted. Its weaponry is: 2 twin-linked assault cannons, 1 twin-linked special weapon.

Land Raider: Redeemer, Crusader and Standard

Terminator sergeants can get close combat wargear. There is a Terminator upgrade to allow shooting in an enemy phase.

Exalted: 4/4/4(5)/4/1/5/1+1/10/3+, jump troops, hit & run, furious charge, no red fury/combat tactics, power armor, stormbolter, power weapon, bolt pistol, no options, no transports.

Quite angelic: masterfully crafted slim armor, jump packs, mechanical wings, masks, long hair.

Named Characters
Erasmus (Tycho): Furious charge, digital weapons (rending), master crafted combi melta: 18" S:8 AP:1 Assault 1, melta, reroll to hit, 4+ ward save, can chose one set of special rules:
-squad ignores red fury
-red fury and preferred enemy
-rage and feel no pain

Mephiston: 7/7/5/5/3/7/4/10/2+, FnP, Fearless, Eternal Warrior, Fleet, 2 psychic powers per turn.
More potent versions of Might of heroes, Transfixing Gaze and Blood Stasis powers:

The gun of Victor's servitor is 36" S:6 AP:6 Assault6

Psychic Powers
Quickening: Infantry moves as beasts, jump troops and walkers gain fleet.
Blood Stasis: 5" vortex of blood in base contact. Enemy models count as being in difficult terrain, and suffer one wound if they try to move and any of the distance dice shows a 1, Mephiston: can cast it in close combat centered on himself, and enemies attacking with a 1 suffer a wound.
Might of Heroes: one model in squad gets +D3 attacks, Mephiston: can cast it on himself.
Primarchs Grace: Squad may reroll dangerous terrain tests.
Transfixing Gaze: Target model must take a leadership roll off or not able to attack librarian, Mephiston: not able to attack any model.
Living Darkness: A template which blocks line of sight.

Fluff
Background: mainly Blood Angels and 4 successor chapters with one page each:
-Blood Consuls
-Angels Sanguine
-Flesh Tearers
-Angels Vermillion


Quote: 

Exalted Assault Squad
"Put Vega from Street Fighter into a slim power armour and give him the Blade of Sigvald and the jump pack of Saint Celestine and you have the right idea."

After battle the Exalted search for wounded who have succumbed to the black rage and take them to the chapter tower prison.

5-10 members, Fast Attack, Standard Marine statline with Ld:10/I:5
jump packs, stormbolter, boltpistol, Exalted blades (thin straight blade with spiral hilt, power weapon, +1 Strength)
Guardians of Amareo: replaces Red Fury and Furious Charge with hit& run.
No transport options
Upgrade to Exemplar Sanguinator granting:
-Paragon of the Host: Reroll hit & run roll
-Coup de Grace: If at least 3 attacks hit, they causes instant death

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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:50 pm 
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Frm GWs page (nothing new but i highlighted the interesting pars):
Quote: 

At the core of any Blood Angels army are squads of Tactical Space Marines, reliable and stalwart Space Marines able to turn their considerable skills to any battlefield role. They are flexible units, as confident on the attack as they are at defence. Tactical Marines might be tasked to hold key objectives in the face of overwhelming numbers, or they might be used to spearhead an advance into the heart of the enemy battleline.

The standard armament of a Tactical Marine is the boltgun, a formidable weapon that fires a relentless hail of explosive warheads. As well as the boltgun, Tactical Marines are trained in the use of more specialist weaponry, from deadly flamers to long-ranged lascannons, allowing a squad to go to war with the right combination of wargear for the task at hand. In addition, Blood Angels Tactical Marines are all trained in the use of jump packs and close combat weaponry, so when the need arises they can take to the air in the role of Assault Marines instead.

Tactical Marines are often mechanised, riding to war in fast-moving Rhinos or accompanied by heavily armed Razorbacks. Unlike other Space Marine Chapters, the Blood Angels often employ Land Raiders to transport their Tactical Marines to battle, providing these mainline warriors with an unparalleled level of protection and firepower.

On the Tabletop

Tactical Squads are the most flexible troops in the Blood Angels army, able to be equipped with a variety of weaponry suited to the role you wish them to perform. They can be used to hang back and defend objectives, armed with longer-ranged weapons such as missile launchers and plasma guns, or sent forwards to drive the enemy back, in which case flamers, melta guns and multi-meltas are key. Better still, because a Tactical Squad can split into two Combat Squads when you deploy it, they can perform both roles at the same time.

Use them to:
Hold Ground: Plant a unit of Tactical Marines on an objective and they won't be going anywhere in a hurry. They have a great armour save, can pump out a truly horrible amount of firepower if the enemy draws too near (and a fair amount even at range) and are unlikely to fall back if they come under sustained assault. When playing Seize Ground, you can split the Tactical Squads into two Combat Squads to capture more objectives.

Push Forwards: Equip a unit of Tactical Marines with a meltagun and the Sergeant an infernus pistol and go tankhunting, or give them a flamer and the Sergeant a power weapon and send them into the thick of the fighting. By putting them in a dedicated transport, you can get them to the frontline in no time at all, clearing the enemy off objectives and then seizing them in the name of the Emperor.

Charge!: Tactical Marines are deadly at close range, as they can rapid fire their boltguns twice up to 12", but they aren't slouches in assault either. Their Sergeant can be armed with a variety of nasty close combat weaponry, including power fists, allowing the unit to tackle any foe no matter how big. And, if a unit of Tactical Marines finds itself afflicted by the Red Thirst, this is doubly true - with Furious Charge the unit will have Strength and Initiative 5, and two attacks when they charge.

Watch out for:
Biting off more than you can chew: Tactical Squads are the most flexible troops in the game, so there's little they can't turn their hands to. Just be careful you don't ask too much of them - they'll give it a good go before they die heroically, but you'll wish you hadn't sent them in unsupported.


As for Red Thirst: AFAIK if there are enemy units within 18" of a Blood Angels unit you have to pass a Leadersdhip test else you are forced to assault them.

Could be adopted for Epic: Blood Angels units which actout an Engage action have to be moved in base contact to enemy units if it is possible. They can't be left voluntarily within Firefight range if they could be moved into base contact.




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 Post subject: Blood Angels v2.07
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:57 am 
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From BOLS:
Quote: 

So the crazed fever pitched rumors are working overtime. The latest Codex: Blood Angels chatter points to the appearance of the "Storm Harbinger". This is the reported correct name for the flying transport used by the Sons of Sanguinius. Here's the latest we hear:

Storm Harbinger
Skimmer, Fast, Deep Strike, 1 Access point (front)
Front:13 Side:11 Rear:10 BS:4
Tantalus Assault Cannon System (R:18" S:6 AP:4 Heavy:8, Rending, Pinning, Linked )
Transport Capacity:
16 models (Terminators/Jump pack troops/Servitors count double)
OR
5 bikes (attack bikes count double)
OR
1 dreadnought
Weapon Options:
Linked-flamer, linked-melta, linked-plasma, 1-2 hunter killers

Jump Pack Insertion: Jump Infantry may assault the turn they disembark, even if the vehicle deepstruck.
This is said to be a transport upgrade for many units.Costing is said to be on par with a IG Colossus.


As a shot from the hip i would say:

Space Marine Storm Harbinger
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 35cm 4+ 6+ 4+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Tantalus Assault Cannon System 30cm 2 x AP4+/AT4+ Disrupt
Twin Plasma gun 15cm AP4+/AT4+ -

Notes: Skimmer, Teleport?/Planetfall?, Transport (may carry three Space Marine Infantry units OR two Terminator units OR one Dreadnought OR one Bike/Attack Bike unit).

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