scourn99, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Missed this in all the ruckus. Also the AC is away on sabbatical AND I've been living suddenly underneath my desk at work so not been manning the Interim Marine AC post as should be.

For this specific list there's pretty much zilch chance at this point in incorporating them here. However, NetEA and Epic in general encourages the use and development of fan lists where this could very well show up. In fact for Space Wolves there is an entire alt Fan-List (made by the AC in fact) for fun stuff here =>
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26319

That list might in fact be a good spot to trial them out in. Also nothing stops you incorporating them into friendly play. AFAICT no one has yet created stats but if you can give me the 40k rules and whatnot for them I can easily provide a good basic starting point for the unit and formation size/costs, of course in another thread. Happy to help you out!

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We're actually at 18 but some legitimate concerns have been raised on a few types of match up. I will be outlining some builds and matchups in a couple of days hopefully where we can get some clarity and move forward in good speed. In addition, we've seen that there's more than a few important lists that haven't even had an outing with the Wolves (and even entire factions) that I want to close up at a minimum until we go forth.

Everyone can see the test matrix here =>
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?res ... srpZ740sIc

I'll add new threads within the next few days to specifically outline and discuss this.

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-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

So any movement, or how many days are you thinking when you said "within the next few days"? (or have I missed any threads?)

And I looked at the test matrix and it is nice to see you keep record but what are you doing with it?
Right now it looks as if you want 3 games against every core list and that just is not going to happen, trust me
18 games is still a very small sample and luck and other circumstances will have a big impact on the numbers so the comments will be more useful then the actual numbers.
Still think it is a good idea to keep track!

With the AC on hiatus I'm not in a rush to submit or spend cycles yet on this as any ERC questions/ concerns are going to be unable to be answered/dealt with. A little more involved living under my desk with my kid in the hospital than Space Wolves. Sorry.

I'd like to know where I said three from every list. I'd like to not see entire approved factions lack any tests however.

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He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

" living under my desk with my kid in the hospital"

Whoa - are you OK? I'm sorry that things are bad for you.

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Ben Sibbald

Personal & Wargaming Blog: http://www.theancienttrack.blogspot.co.uk

EPIC WIP: Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Eldar

No problem, I get that other stuff has priority just didn't know about your situation. Hope your kid gets better!


You never said that you wanted three test I only saw that 3 test = green 1-2 tests = yellow and 0 tests = red and made my own conclusions

So would a battle against Orks help with the approval or what do you have in mind? To me the factions are the same as on this forum but when testing I might disregard the "smaller" ones. Tau, Squats etc.

Ahhhh I can see that then. No it was more to color code at a glance, Red/Yellow/Green being right in the ribbon by default

Realized that I didn't answer a more important question which is that the purpose of something like this allows anyone to visualize at a glance (without needing to wade through pages of bat rep posts / threads) can see big glaring hole (hey that's interesting, no orks... let me test that) or to see an anomaly (you notice the w/l/d is 3:0:1? Why are we have 6 match ups against just Codex Marines? etc...). It also was quite good at stopping some coversations on XYZ list is OP as you can see the results in one page.

As to a fringe faction, I'd put Tau way above say 'Nids, AMTL, Knights as they're pretty new and haven't even really gone through the grueling tourney circuit yet or as others like say, DKoK / DE, the 3rd phase list at least originally came from GW as opposed to being a NetEA brain child.

However to get your brain going, there's some worry on the termie heavy maxed drop lists against low SR opponents. A look at that for a game or two just to be sure wouldn't be bad idea. The worry as articulated to me generally is that you can corner up and pummel the opponent and cripple them with a termie alpha strike. The other was blood claw spam. It was enough that it was worth the stress build as that's not been well shown in any testing performed.

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-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

Took the Space Wolf for a spin against some Minervan Tanks.

My list:
Strike Cruiser 200
Great Company (Drop) 300
Long Fangs (Drop) 300
Terminators + 2 Dreadnoughts + Rune Priest. (Drop) 475
Long Fangs + Hunter 375
SwiftClaws + Hero 250
Wolves 150
Wolves 150
Great Company + Hunter + Wolf Lord 425
Land Speeder 200
Thunderbolts 175

Minervans had something like this:
SH tank co + Griffons
SH tank co
Russ co
Deathstrikes
Hydra battery
Hydra battery
Medusa
Manticores
Thunderbolts

The drop was the first thing that happened and (sadly) the game was almost finished afterwards. The bombardment hit a Russ company killing three or four. Then came the three pods placing 3 blastmarkers on the surrounding units scaring of a warhound and that was followed up by some terminators destroying a Superheavy tank company…
The Three units dropping in was then attacked by everything but managed to hold on, nu formation was totally destroyed and the Gray Hunters managed to move into position on the artillery. Both Wolves and the Swiftclaws marched across the battlefield ready for turn two. On the other side the Gray Hunters and longfangs advanced towards the remaining Superheavy company. The Minervans didn’t manage to rally anything so turn two was pretty one sided and in the beginning of turn 3 I even managed to destroy most of the last Superheavies in a combined assault.

A blurry picture taken at the end of turn 1. The drop happened next to the forest were the Leman russ is on the picture.

I could probably have pulled off the same thing with Codex Marines but my opponent and my own impression is that the Space Wolfs is just like normal marines but a little bit better on engagements. So what is supposed to be their “weakness”? Marines should be a very all-round army so I do not want them to have a big hole in the back but compared to Codex Marines I think they have more positive things then negative…


Some comments on the list. Most of which I have said before (but without any response/correction):

Great Company. 0-2 of the following options (you may select each option only once only once per Great Company)

Thy way it is written I am very unsure you could actually take drop pods for the Terminators. I only see a lot of “they can use drop pods” but they do not have “plus transport” so…

Wolf Lord. No one can take this upgrade. Perhaps it should be a part of the “Hero” upgrade?

Razorbacks: Add any number of Blood Angels Razorbacks, up to the number required to transport the formation. Paste and copy error?

Implement the changes to the Codex marines? (Sniper, Typhoon)

Pack Mentality. A simpler and almost always as good rule would be to make the Space Wolfs “Commander” special rule 10 cm period.

Unblooded. This also feels unnecessary complicated. Either copy the Greenskins, make them “+1 initiative when taking an engage action” or just let it go. Most of the units with Unblooded wants to get into base to base anyway so no need to force them. It also feels a little weird that they have 2+ initiative on marsh actions if they are that eager to fight…

Why do Space Wolfs have 3+ in CC? Are they that much better then Codex Marines? Not that good on Space Wolf fluff but does not Gray Hunters have the same stats in WH40k but they lack heavy weapons (and only BloodClaws have extra attacks when they charge?) Do they have some equipment that the normal marines lack or…?

Long fangs is very good compared to a normal devastator unit. Why not settle for 2x AP5+/AT5+ shots instead. Right now they feel a little bit better than 50 points more. 4 more shots and they hit AT on 5+ instead of 6+…

Have tried a Blood Claw spam some month ago but it didn't feel OP. Next time I will try and get a better report together.

/Uven

Yeah - the fluff for the Space Wolves is that they are vicious in close combat but in reality Grey Hunters are usually kept as ranged troops. They're ability has usually been "counter attack" which means that they get the bonus of charging even if they're the ones being charged.

Grey Hunters in the previous edition rules were monstrous because they were underpriced, had bolter, bolt pistol and chainsword, and each squad could have a "Wolf Banner" that let you re roll all ones in a single turn. No heavy weapons but could have 2 special weapons. Also they could have wolf guard leaders instead of sergeants.

Blood Claws/ Swiftclaws/ Skyclaws actually have slightly poorer weapon and ballistic skill than Grey Hunters, but are compensated by having more attacks when charging - if they get bogged down in combat they lose that advantage.

Long Fangs in 40k are smaller squads than Devastators - can be more powerful because they can split-fire between multiple targets.

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Ben Sibbald

Personal & Wargaming Blog: http://www.theancienttrack.blogspot.co.uk

EPIC WIP: Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Eldar

Thanks for the nice and simple education Stormwind

No problem - when my proxies arrive I'll be making a big SW army.

I have the 5th/6th and 7th ed. codices for 40k so I'm happy to refer to them even though I don't play it right now.

_________________
Ben Sibbald

Personal & Wargaming Blog: http://www.theancienttrack.blogspot.co.uk

EPIC WIP: Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Eldar

In my own experience, one big weakness is their lack of infantry firepower, aside from specialty units like the Long Fangs.

You were facing a firepower focused army, where getting into assault is where you want to be anyway, even if you had codex marines, and the stats are all in your favor if you manage to get there. Sounds like you pulled off a very successful drop deployment that maximized your advantages.

Try it again vs. a very assault heavy army.

I've had some frustration using Space Wolves vs. Eldar. Their aspects can match or beat my assault ability, their Guardian detachments can carry a lot of MWs that don't care about my armor, and all their vehicles use the skimmer rule to force me to use my FF value instead of my CC value. But I can't back off and shoot them because they have far more guns (mostly I have none). I could build a tank heavy army, but in that case I really am just playing a codex army without access to Warhounds.

I'm not saying there aren't things you can do when fighting Eldar, because there are. I'm just saying I think you'll find the game a very different challenge and you'll feel the Wolve's limitations more when playing against Eldar than when playing against Guard. I think a Guard army sort of shows off your strengths; especially the one you have listed above.

-S'Cipio

Gotta try this list

Yup, would have had a harder time with an assault orientated force.
But I still doubt that the tacticals is the ones that brings the firepower... When I play Codex marines I usually assaults with them and let the other units do the shooting so it is a very little drawback. And even against skimmers they still have the same FF as normal marines. Anyway will try to get a game against Eldar next time (I rarely face Eldar and when I do they almost never take Wraithguards or support plattforms to their guardians so I havn't faced that much MW. (Unless someone borrows my Iyanden )
Also you have better initiative so you should be dictating the assaults, in theory at least.

Decided to build a Space Wolves army, but not sure what I should get, any ideas?

How would a starter army look like and what should I get next?

I need 3k for a tournament in October.