Well, that didn't take long,  I'm glad I asked.  

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Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

For those keeping score at home, that's:

1) Land Raider option off the Terminators
2) Land Speeder Storm may only transport SM Scout units
3) Raven Guard Assault formation 175 points
4) Assault upgrade of 2 units of Assault Marines for 75 points available to an Assault Detachment
5) titan options reduced to Warhound-only

and...
6) Thawk Transport is under consideration, based on whether we can reach a consensus opinion

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Neal

I'm still for renaming the Raven Guard Heavy Scouts to Raven Guard Veterans
Or perhabs drop them and replace them with Raven Guard Assault which receive the Scout ability.

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We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Found this, not a great picture of the new LS but thought I'd share:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/3991.ro....9967026

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

Alternate drop pod idea I've just come across. You get one escort a turn, each with a 2bp barrage and up to one formation aboard, dropped in the normal fashion. Kind of a sustained planatary attack hitting all over the shop to disrupt the enemy. If an enemy spaceship appears in whatever turn that turns escort joins the next and both come in on the same (subsequent) turn.

Another idea is for rg spacecraft to be init 0+.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Has there been any further progress on this list. I am hopefully going to test the list on Tuesday.

So... thanks to Chroma for pressing on this and for the re-org ideas.

Blood Angels are taking Assault Marines and formations as a key element, so I think those can be downplayed in the RG list - still strong, but not a major feature.  In that place, I think stronger Scout formations should be a feature.


Raven Guard Assault have the option of dropping backpacks.  In 40K, this is actually a Tactical formation choosing chainswords and pistols, so it seems they should have some of the same formation options.  I think Pods/Dreads is a must as a drop pod assault option.  I would like to see a Fast Attack option for them as Assault Marines.  However, cramming all that together might open the door for big Frankenstein formations of everything, so I was thinking nstead of a general Fast Attack option would be to stick with a Land Speeder theme for support and give only Speeders as an upgrade.  Limiting it to Land Speeders would keep the support limited to a close-support role, without a bunch of oddball units crammed into a formation.  Also, Land Speeders can Planetfall in the list, so we might be able to add them to a Drop Pod Assault formation (I'd have to re-read the pod and planetfall rules to see how/if that would work).

Also, if the RG Assault choose to go without packs, I think they should all have to.

===

RG Assault - 4 Assault Units + Transport.  175 points.
Commander, Dreadnought, Drop Pods, Land Speeders, Razorback, Vindicator

RG Scout - 4 Scout units.  150 points.
Commander, Heavy Scouts, Land Speeders, Land Speeder Storm, Sniper

Land Speeders Upgrade - Up to 2 units.  50 points each.

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Neal

Assault + rhinos make for funny beasts. I'd say they are worse for thunderhawks and ground ops but better for landing craft insertions (less mobile vs 2 6+ attacks from the rhinos for 'free' from the landing craft). Would a numbers change address this?

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I agree, but I'd like to see them tried.  There's no way to use them efficiently in Thawks but on the ground, Assault + Rhinos + screening units could keep the troops mounted for long-range assaults and would have a token amount of firepower for prep fire/support when they were too far away to assault directly.  Something like...

Assault + 3 Razorbacks + rhino + 2 Speeders - 350 points.

I don't know if it would really work but I think it's worth a shot.

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Neal

That's interesting.  Even without Scout on the Storms, that formation would allow 8 Scout units (4 Scouts, 2 Hvy Scouts, 2 Speeders).  Of course, it would also be ~500 points before characters.

What were the results in assault?  To me, that's always been the most effective method of removing screening formations.  Spread out formations practically beg for clipping assaults.


Also interesting.  Given the lack of ranged fire for the points, I would have thought that the desire to assault would have incentivized using them as transports.  Though, if the scouts are primarily screens I suppose a "wasted" formation isn't that big of a point sink.


It is supposed to be Warhounds only.  I pictured that kind of force as the forward elements of a blitz.

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Neal

I understand what you are saying but there are self-limiting factors on Scout screens.  Long distance makes it that much easier to control the exact number of them you wish to engage.  Raw distance and increased LoS blocks both work to limit the defender's ability to react, whether counter-charging, fighting in the assault or Overwatching.



Yeah, but a lost assault wipes them out.  That limits their ability to continue to perform as a barrier, unlike a Fearless formation.  They still have to retreat.


To be honest, it's been a long time since I used lots of Scout units.  We all got out of the habit after the "10cm intermingle" FAQ made them more of a liability than a benefit in most situations.  You're very likely correct.  I'll have to try it out again.  I'm just having a hard time picturing this as a problem.

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Neal

Neal,

As I am in the process of adding a Storm and small Scout squad to my 40K army, I wanted to offer some thoughts on how I see them being used in 40K.

Since a play a lot of Apocalypse, which is a larger, more primitive version of Epic, I've identified a need in my army to have a unit that is able to grab an objective in the latter stages of the game, possibly by assaulting

Or

As a "hit" squad, designed to pick on a soft target that is important, but susceptable to a surprise attack. Examples would be Inquisitors, IG command squads, Ork Mek boyz, or Zoanthropes.

The idea is to use a high mobility unit to eliminate a threat by surprise. I was able to get them into a game and they aided my normal marines by supporting an existing assault, causing the opposing unit to break, which seemed to indicate that the unit has some promise.

Some of the abilities of this unit to affect a surprise attack are:

1. High mobility
2. a -2 to Leadership, making the assaulted unit more likely to run away
3. a flexible weapon loadout on the Storm (e.g. heavy flamer, multi-melta, etc.)

If you are looking for a "role" for this formation, you might consider structuring the formation as more of an highly interdictor. A typical type of mission might be something like assaulting a Manticore or Basilisk formation behind enemy lines, thus removing it's firepower during a critical turn.

A possible configuration might be:

4 x Landspeeder Storms with whatever weapons loadout
4 x Scouts

Then you'd want them to be able to have a chance of doing something, so maybe mount a MM on the Storm, giving them a macro attack, which would sting if the assault was allowed to take place.

Anyway, just some thoughts and I am very interested in your list.

Cheers,

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment