On the spaceships, rather than replace with lower cost versions, why not just remove them? It would make sense if the DA can't planetfall because they don't have orbital support.

Think Mard has already covered the reason for not forcing the Fallen formation to deploy on the board: because it is the Dark Angel player who chooses to use the rule, they could fairly frequently force their opponent to deploy a unit on the board that they would normally keep off. The most obvious example being Necrons. Even many Eldar builds would be quite disadvantaged - personally as an Eldar player I almost always keep the most robust infantry formations off-board, only leaving rangers and maybe 150 point guardians. Even marines would also face a similar conundrum, only having garrisoned scouts deployed at the beginning.

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Actually I think the Deathwing should stay 4-6 units for a couple of reasons.
1/ It's thematic
2/ You have no Titan allies so a beefed up DW formation replaces this option and the high points cost is the trade off.

It's a tough nut to crack but still doable. If there's arguments about them being too tough as a BTS you can point to AMTL titans, IG LR Companies and various other BTS options in other lists. 12Bms to break doesn't stop them being killed even with 4+ RA.

yeah it's not undoable and also could be balanced by making them a larger points sink in the list such as if present requiring the chapter master ch then to be added there. It might be powerful but it can't be everywhere and expensive enough that you can't go crazy without having too few activations. The problem generally is not having an expensive but damn good formation, it's when you can pull more than one of those. I'm not sold on an addition via a new unit versus just more terminators however but that's a list design philosophy thing I have (upgrade TO new unit/add additional of same).

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Cut/paraphrased, but I really rather like this idea. Thematic, potentially allow them two characters (Chapter Master and Chaplain, if the Chapter Master becomes required). Brutal, powerful but pricy.

Was just a way to try and entice people to take the Attack bikes instead of maxing out on normal


Will Fix


True, but this helps us step away from the other lists at this point









I dropped this during the reaction of "Your list is bad and you should feel bad" I'm happy to put it back to being standard of 4 with the option of bumping back up to 6 for testing. I'm still a bit worried It may be a bit too strong with ATSKNF. I'm also not keen on having any option to have 2 characters in a single formation at this point for Marines
We can test all these options though, and that will help us with some Data
The option to upgrade to a 6formation of Termies will be back with the next release


Can bump back up, but then I'll be putting a freeze on changes for aircraft till we can start testing But that seems like a good place to start


We dan start there


The names can stay for now, but we'll do different tests with both versions



This can be easily done. The next release may take a bit this week, but look for a bit of format change as well


It's a risk to run HFTF, where i agree with you that is would make for a more cinematic game, for a GT senario I do not want to be forcing people who have all air assault or Teleporting armies to start with one of their formations grounded.



Yep, good thinking. I'll price them somewhere between Imperial Navy ships and Marines without transport capacity



Cheers



Yep, will get this in the mission statement


Nope, this is different. Like the IF special rules certain parts have been removed to suit the playstyle of the list. Basically it's the same but we've removed the options for Drop pods completly



Can fix



Can also fix

This is a reasonably good idea for a work around. You get to add +2 but with the Chapter Master and 0-1?? That way you get to have multiple DW formations but only one at 6 strong.

Having it almost certainly be the BTS is also rather appropriate. It's a lot of risk tied up in that unit, for the reward of a unit that very likely mashes up any formation it drops upon. The 6-strong formation could become an explicit upgrade option that adds two terminator/Deathwing Knight stands to /any/ formation that includes a DA supreme commander, which by nature means it's a 0-1 option that can then be really quite fighty.

Of course, another simple option is to just add only 1 unit with the Chapter Master bringing the total to 5 units. It keeps the ATSKNF BM issue to as much of a minimum for an upgrade as possible., while still increasing the unit strength.

Ah interesting. Chapter master as a unit, not a character, eh? kinda like that conceptually. we fall into traps of taking common conventions and building them up to be rules, oftentimes. I can see how adding punch in units/lists can also use reduced flexibility to to provide spin.

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Do they always hang around with terminators? It's been a long time but don't remember that being the case, Azrael wasn't in terminator armour. Not that he needed it with that watcher dude he had caddying for him.

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Interesting thoughts.
But with the next release, which i should be releasing by the end of the week, I'll just be putting back the old upgrade to bump up to 6 Terminators.

Prior to testing I do not want to lock the chapter Master into any formation, nor do i think this should be the list that has double character options for formations.

ok played a game today.

thoughts -
nothing jumped out for myself or opponent as being out right crazy but few thing made me scratch my chin.

Building a list. I found it terribly restrictive and a bit odd. Why does this chapter (which follows the codex mostly) have weird take x to get access to y?
The majority of the fighting force of Dark Angels is still marines, but to field them I have to take something else first. To field Land Raiders i first need to take Predators?
Can it go to the more open style of the other adeptus astartes style and have a more open plan and put restricted items in the Max 1/3rd bracket.

The tacticals/Dev Plasma AT shooting being better than a Missile is a little off? should it be 30cm AP4+/AT6+
Gives a trade in range for better AP.

The Nephalim fighters did well. have alot of shots though. will do some comparisons.

Looking forward to the Terminators going up to 6.

Back in the day plasma was definitely better than a krak missile. Don't remember it's range though.

In this list the range is a fairly big negative so dont think we'd see many devs or tacs if they only got a pip on AP for trade. If that's considered a reasonable drawback (worse devs) then fair enough but IMO you don't see enough of them in the codex list as it is, considering they are supposed to be the most numerous troops.

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Hi Dave, thanks for giving the list a run. I hope to see some full reports from you in the Future
Just a few points

I'm happy and am thinking about loosening the choice restrictions a bit in the next update. But not to a full open style of the other Marine lists. The basic idea here was to have the Ravenwing or Deathwing featured heavily in hunting the fallen. As most normal Marines do not know the full secrets of the Order. The standard Marine list can be used to play Dark Angels following a more codex approach.

I will probably keep the same structure for now, but will set the choices for Ravenwing to unlocking 2 RW Support and 1 Line company
Deathwing unlocking 2 Line company and 1 Ironwing Support
Ironwing unlocking 2 Ironwing Support and 1 Line Company


Thoughts?

well 3 options per core would allow for some flexibility and would be an improvement.

I would have have thought good design would be allowing the player to play the list the way they want to, not just saying this is it and it only really makes 1 or 2 types of armies.

Most of the time it will still include deathwing and ravenwing elements (i still think the ironwing is a bit meh, it only got a small mention once and isnt in the main codex) but would let someone field a battle company and support in the dark angels form.

friend was writing up the battle report so might be up later this week.