really, yeah, we're just talking about a minor quibble as to which should be 'base'.

P9 of the 4th edition SM codex talks about there being three main forms of tactics marine armies use to attack their foes.

What was #3?

Could someone list me a few books which show the marines fighting en masse as a ground force where there are no Air assets or Titan allies so I can catch up with the "new" background .

The only books I've read where marines have had no support has been small scale actions,forces as small as Epic A formations not Epic A Armies.

I don't think the Codex Marine list should be forced into an all round list,it should be re-named as an Air Assault/Invasion force list with new variant lists done to make other styles viable.

It (modifying the Codex list to allow both styles) may make "ground pounders" a more viable force but what about the players who use the Air Transports just as Bombers, they are then going to be paying over the odds.

I'm taking the following to the GT

*snip*

So the Battle company plus friends basically. Lots of deployment options available.

Will I do well? Doubt it...

Easiest way would be to increase the cost of Thunderhawks and Landingcrafts and decrease the cost of everything which canbe transported by them.
So a ground pounder force would be far cheaper but the air assault list would cost the same as now.

I agree! The ‘all arms’ list promoted here is such a variant list to allow a more ground based force, it’s not intended to replace or affect the main 'air assault' SM list but to provide a different alternative for those who prefer to use it. It still allows air/space options but prices them rather more expensively. Perhaps a more self explanatory title than ‘all arms’ might be better for it to avoid confusion...


In the first Vraks book the Dark Angels assault Vrak’s star port without titans or imperial allies and without any orbital bombardment (the Citadel on Vraks has masses of defence lasers so the DA ships deployed their forces over the horizon from any of them and mainly moving up in an armoured column over ground). It was a pretty major engagement by 500 or so marines over the course of 10 days and by the end over 200 marines (1/5 of the chapter) were killed.
.

I’m pretty sure there were some Horus Heresy battles where large forces of marines fight without support. I don’t read many of the novels either but I suspect other examples can be found of large scale marine deployments.  



We're not proposing turning Squats in Eldar or anything silly! We’re talking small points changes to a number of units to make a ground based variant list - a recognised tactic/army build in the background and familiar to W40k players (who lets face it outnumber epic players 100 to 1) - more viable (note not necessarily equally viable to standard air-drop list, just a little less sub-par than it is currently), they’d still be marines and would play as such. As a whole the army would be similar, just with a small increase in extra troops to make up for the limitation of being ground based.

If you don't wish to use it then don't, but I don't see a problem with the existence of such a list style, or why people are arguing against it so much.

In the first Vraks book the Dark Angels assault Vrak’s star port without titans or imperial allies and without any orbital bombardment (the Citadel on Vraks has masses of defence lasers so the DA ships deployed their forces over the horizon from any of them and mainly moving up in an armoured column over ground). It was a pretty major engagement by 500 or so marines over the course of 10 days and by the end over 200 marines (1/5 of the chapter) were killed.

Easiest way would be to increase the cost of Thunderhawks and Landingcrafts and decrease the cost of everything which canbe transported by them.
So a ground pounder force would be far cheaper but the air assault list would cost the same as now.

That was silly of them...

The operation was deemed as a success. The goal was to destroy the starport what the Dark Angels did.

Yer basic Air Assault.

So the three options are Air Assault, weeny ground forces, and Air Assault.  

Q: Isn't Hena's Scion list supposed to be the grounder list?

So the DA attempted a ground-pounding force and got slaughtered? losing 200 marines or over 20% of the chapters strength doesn't sound like it was very effective.